Dolby Vision for Vero 4K+?

Now that the Nvidia Shield and Apple TV 4K+ can play single-layer Dolby Vision files (with Atmos to boot!), have the OSMC minds changed their opinion on including Dolby Vision playback capabilities?

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I’m glad someone asked this.

My understanding is they’ve been able to do this for some time. Single layer isn’t very useful apart from streaming services, which will need their own individual certifications for acquiring these streams.

And now apparently, as of a few days ago, DV can be mixed to MKV. However I’m not sure the MKV format support means what people think it means. If we can support Dolby Vision trivially, we would of course do so. We know there is some demand, although it’s not clear how much demand there is.

I have a contract from Dolby Labs sitting on my desk and Dolby are happy to send a final and executable version. I won’t sign it presently because the terms are simply ridiculous. If anyone signed that contract, as it is, I’d be surprised. Perhaps some companies have done it as prestige to show a DV certification and gain access to DV enabled chips without realising that it likely won’t work, and if it doesn’t, they’ll be the ones liable. While not under NDA, I don’t want to go in to specific terms as negotiations always evolve. I have turned around some tough deals in the past.

Dolby is a big company. So changing each clause in their contract takes 2-3 months of legal back and forth and negotiating. That’s when you don’t have people off work due to a pandemic. I think the fact that they outright stated that the contract is negotiable is a sign that they expect this. The question is whether it’s worth doing this dance.

What are your intentions for watching DV? I think it’ll be a tough sell to Dolby to say: ‘well, we understand that DVs main focus is Amazon Prime and Netflix, but our users are primarily focused on downloaded MP4 remuxes’. Because that’s all it can be - there is no legitimate DV format.

I’ve seen the roadmap. I still don’t think this format is going to work. Put it this way: I wouldn’t want to be an early adopter.

Then again, I backed HD-DVD, so I might be wrong.

In the time it took to get a sample contract with Dolby (they lost our negotiations several times), we successfully concluded HDR10+ and a preliminary agreement with Google to support Widevine L1.

Sam

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You mean dual-layer DV or just single-layer?

Sam. Curious where you saw the info about mkv and Dolby vision from a few days ago.

There is loads of discussion on the new DV capability of makemkv 1.15.1 over on their forum.

AIUI the MakeMKV solution creates a single track stream that is still dual layer within the single track stream - carrying BL+EL+RPUs in a single PID stream I believe. (Some discussion whether track or PID is correct way of describing this)

Awesome, so we can hope for an update with L1 … and maybe a “fully” netflix app ?

BHH

Does this have to do anything about LLDV?

No - Widevine L3 is the basic implementation. Widevine L1 is used for decode and render in secure world.

Not specifically AIUI.

My understanding is that LLDV is just a different way of sending DV metadata over HDMI. First gen DV used to have to ‘hide’ or ‘tunnel’ the DV metadata (which is used by the displays RPU?) within the actual active video signal, meaning DV displays at that time had to analyse the actual incoming video signal to detect and decode the ‘hidden’ DV metadata. This allowed DV to be carried over HDMI connections before there was an official way of carrying dynamic metadata across using a standard HDMI standard.

AIUI LLDV removed the need for the display to process the video to find and detect the tunnelled DV metadata, and instead allowed it to be carried as part of the standard HDMI connection (now that HDMI has a standard for this)

I don’t believe LLDV is anything to do with single or dual layer DV content in the compressed file domain, it’s about carriage in the uncompressed HDMI domain.

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my bad! sorry

BHH

There are a heck of a lot more disks with Dolby Vision than there are with HDR10+.

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=300877

vs

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=276448

I think DV would be an absolute killer feature - hardly any other media player supports it right now. (In fact, other than the new Shield, and the probably-illegal M9702, I’m not aware of any player that can play dual-layer DV - there are a few that can handle singler-layer DV on, for example, Netflix).

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Yes DV would be a fantastic feature .

Anyway @sam_nazarko you mentioned widevine l1 which would be also great , even being a preliminary agreement , when do u think this could be implemented ? Just to set my expectations.

Maybe never. It’s just an agreement, not an implementation.

It lets us see if it’s now actually possible.

Sam

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Kodi 19 + Netflix add-on seems to be able to play the streaming DV.

Perhaps this bodes well for both streaming DV and Bluray DV for the Vero 4K+?

Whatever is possible on Firestick doesn’t have any impact on Vero4k without a contract :wink:

If DV is eventually implemented in a future Vero product, please do what Panasonic does, if possible. Offer a model that is HDR10+ only, and a model sold for a slight premium that supports both HDR10+ and DV. I’d rather not pay extra for a feature like DV that I’ll never use.

If this works from Kodi, I would say go for it, you’ll probably get more revenue from it.

I will want a new one, just like currently with the Shield 2019 having DV and Atmos capability for apps like Netflix, Prime and Disney+.

So, hypothetically, if you could get Widevine L1 working, what would be the implications? Would that allow hardware-assisted decoding of Netflix and Disney+ videos? Access to higher-resolution streams on Amazon Video? If so, that would be another killer feature - even more so if it combined with playing Dolby Vision streams. (Let me dream for a while. :slightly_smiling_face:)

We’ll find out soon enough.