The OSMC Wiki is Useless

http://kodi.wiki/view/OSMC#Installing_OSMC

Click on the link provided under the topic “Installing OSMC”. Do you get information about how to install OSMC such as what to do when you first boot it up after you’ve burned an SD card with the image? Do you get instructions on how to burn the image? NO!!! “Installing OSMC” tells you “Where To Get OSMC”. So I would suggest to who ever looks after that Wiki page to relable it, stop misleading people and provide some more useful information.

Chill

The page needs some work, agreed. But someone needs to step up and do that.

osmc.tv/download pretty much covers how to install OSMC. There aren’t any instructions per se.

Sam

Hi Sam

I’m in a really huge Open Source Community, and thing that we’ve learned pretty hard in the last years: Documentation goes over Features.

The thing is: with a good documentation not only the acceptance bur also your community grows, and with the growth of your community you find more active contributors to OSMC. With little documentation comes frustration. First at user level, second at your level because of posts like this.

I also had the problem, that I wanted to upgrade my OSMC. But in the Wiki it only said: “It’s possible to upgrade it via apt”. This is not really clear. Dist-Upgrade or Upgrade? I finally reinstalled it completely, also because on another page I found the notice that it’s impossible to upgrade from Alpha to RC without running into problems later.

Cheers and thanx for the good work
Sebastian

Well put, cozwei.

I would just like to re-iterate the point I made elsewhere - i.e. that amateur programmers rarely produce good documentation because they are too busy adding the next exciting new feature. The result often ends up with dividing the world into two groups - those that understand the thought processes etc and cope somehow and the rest (most of whom will soon give up). However if some reasonable documentation is produced, I’m sure people will be willing to help improve it.

Has anyone actually reviewed the official OSMC documentation at https://osmc.tv/help/wiki? Please let me know where it is lacking.

It does not make sense to duplicate it on the Kodi wiki. Instead, it makes more sense to provide enough to summarise the OSMC project and where the various ports of call for help are

This is an issue of the past, and so it did not deserve long term residence in the Wiki.

S

I have had a look at the wiki, and would make the following points:

  1. Your reply mentions the Kodi wiki, but “What is OSMC” does not even mention Kodi, so why should a newbie even look for a Kodi wiki? If you want to rely on the Kodi wiki, surely Kodi needs a prominent mention + a link to the Kodi wiki.
  2. Skins can be a disaster when it comes to producing good documentation for newbies, as people like to see screens to match precisely those shown/described in the bumf. The differences between OSMC and Confluence skins used in the Kodi wiki and the OSMC skin are particularly extreme, and sufficient to confuse most newbies (e.g way to access OSMC settings) - they certainly did for me for some while, so anyone following instructions from the Kodi wiki is likely to hit problems.
  3. Where does it say that the OSMC skin does not support mice? Is it reasonable that a newbie has to find out the hard way (and keep wasting your time with multiple threads in the forum!)?
  4. How are people to know the first thing they need to do is to go to My OSMC to set up things like nationality? Incidentally I didn’t find the equivalent information in the Kodi wiki, but presumably it is done quite differently.
  5. A list of known issues would be a great help to avoid wasted time.

I think you need to think carefully about your target market, and their level of expertise and willingness to struggle with the not-so-obvious. If the aim is to attract people who just want to use OSMC with minimum effort then you need to start looking at things from their point of view rather than that of a software developer. If you are happy to restrict your market to those who are prepared to struggle, I suggest that you make this clear.

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Wrong way round. I am saying that the Kodi wiki should only serve as a brief introduction for those that are looking at Raspberry Pi references there.

International settings are prompted on first boot.

I think you are being too judgemental here: this is an early project and we’re improving the Wiki on a daily basis. Same with the software. If you’re serious about improving the Wiki feel free to submit some PRs.

Sam

Hi,

I have updated the OSMC entry on the Kodi wiki.
Hopefully this is a little clearer.
http://kodi.wiki/view/OSMC#Installing_OSMC

Then the word “Installing” should be changed to “Downloding” or “How To Get” because it left me wondering what I missed and kept rereading the page. It’s misleading.

However, that does nothing to explain what I’m to expect when I boot OSMC the first time. When I did that I was presented with a screen requesting I select a language. So I chose English. Then I was asked to Agree to a usage thing that no one I know ever reads. The next screen allowed me to enter my email address to get updates. After that, what was I supposed to do? There is no prompt or “next step”. After waiting a while for something to happen, I thought that maybe I was supposed to power off. No directions again. So I pulled the plug, waited, plugged the power in again and waited for my Pi to boot. It booted into a screen with a bunch of stuff listed vertically. All had time to see were the words Video and Pictures when the screen changed back to the language selection screen. I went through the entire setup thing all over again. I played this game twice. Since I had no instructions telling me what to do or expect after entering my email, I was left out in the cold. The OS just plain doesn’t work as far as I can tell and I don’t know what to do next.

This morning I will download the RC file again, format the SD with Gparted and put OSMC on it again. I also have a second Pi that I can try to boot it with. If all this still fails, I will declare OSMC a waste of my time and try OpenElec.

It’s kinda obvious that you would need to download it in order to install it.

There is no need to enter an email address, it’s optional.

At the email page there is apply or continue or something of the sort at the bottom right of the page that you must click on. To me it was rather obvious but I guess you can miss it

It is a touch harsh to expect an RC release that hasn’t been finalised (and as such is changing) to have polished support literature.

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Why are you using gparted? There is no need for this. But besides that, you know how to use gparted but you can’t figure this out without throwing a childish tantrum? Out of the thousands of OSMC installs that are currently running out in the wild, did you ever stop to wonder why 99% aren’t here in the forum complaining about not understanding how to install the system?

This is a complete troll job from the beginning.

2 Likes

Typical form of “bikeshed painting”, which is very much about how random people can feel like they have the ability to discuss superficial issues, because everybody feels that they can give an opinion on the color choice. So issues that are superficial get a lot more noise. Then when it comes to actual hard and deep technical issues, people (sometimes) realise that they just don’t know enough. :mask:

You might better look at this link

I also was not sure whether I should upgrade from Alpha or do a fresh install. A search of the forums answered my question. Time spent: about 5 seconds.

@ Sam - Sorry you feel I was being judgemental, but you did ask for comments on the existing wiki. I certainly got the impression that you thought it adequate, so I tried to highlight some of the areas where I think there are major shortfalls in approach rather than needing minor tweaks.

With regards to international settings, isn’t that just language rather than keyboard layout, time zone etc on first run? Apologies if my memory misled me here. Wouldn’t it be nice to know how to change them later?
Since then I have remembered that the Windows installer could do with some more explanation, and the general delays & rebooting when first run could be usefully explained somewhere. Also there is no mention anywhere (that I have seen) as to how to deal with overscan - I knew enough from other Pi use to do this with the config.txt files, but is that a reasonable expectation for all users. In terms of the Pi settings page, I suspect many of the entries will mean nothing to many people, so either you need supporting documentation or help text that appears when an item is selected.

When I started my struggles with OSMC on my Pi 2, I expected some problems as it was only alpha software, shortly updated to RC. However had it been a full version, I would have expected some effort towards providing the sort of information to be found in the Kodi wiki. Unfortunately you have chosen a path that invalidates much of the Pi configuration etc information and the Kodi wiki, to which you have the added problem that the Tvheadend wiki starts with “WARNING: this is out of date and needs to be updated”!

As I have said elsewhere, a software developers rarely make good documenters and you need to attract the right type of people onto your team. Unfortunately you still appear to be in denial of the size of the problem of providing something suitable for newbies, so I suspect you are going to find it difficult to recruit the right people.

It amazes me the lengths that individuals go to complain about a Free product.
Apple, and Google etc., have enormous staffing budgets to hire individuals to create documents in many languages and keep them updated, but still issues fall behind with these companies.

I was brought up to not complain unless I was willing to pitch in and work myself.

If someone has an issue , volunteer to contribute 20 hours a week of work for the next 12 weeks, donate $1,000.00, or purchase an equivalent OS, or application if you can find one that works as well as OSMC that is free.

@ mermann9393 - I was not aiming to complain, I was hoping to help SAM and his team understand that the documentation is as important as the product itself if it is to attract newbies. As I indicated in my earlier post, it is entirely up to those involved in the development to decide on their target market, but they should bear in mind that poor documentation will limit the market for their commercial product, namely Vero+OSMC. If they can start a documentation structure which addresses the issues I have raised I would probably volunteer contributions, but do not have the time to administer what I see as a major exercise.

OSMC is a project.
It is constantly being worked on.
The operating system, Kodi, the Kodi wiki and the OSMC wiki are constantly being worked on, improved, updated and upgraded.

The OSMC team consists of a dozen people at most, they are all working on all the things all the time.
If you want it all straight away then can I suggest you spend your time writing up Wiki entries for both the OSMC and Kodi wikis and submit them here, instead of complaining on the forum.

If you would like to contribute in other ways please click this link…
https://osmc.tv/contribute/

Well thanks to all who have replied with all the great suggestions. Yes, indeed. Why would a newbie (me) think to look at the Kodi wiki. In my past experience when I wanted information on RASPBMC that’s what I searched for. So it seemed to make sense (to me) to seek information on OSMC. I didn’t stop to think of it as the transport mechanism for Kodi. I am well chastised on that point. I do apologize, however, for my tone and the comments I made yesterday. I was tired and my frustration pushed me over the top. No I was not exhibiting a “childish tantrum”. Had that been the case I would probably taken a hammer to my SD card or, worse, my Pi. :smile:

Of course OSMC is a work in progress and I shouldn’t have been so harsh. I apologize to all you programmers and contributors.

Anyway, being well rested today, I went at it again. This time I deleted all the partitions on my SD card and formatted it to FAT32 using GParted somethink I neglected to do yesterday and I have no idea what was on the card, if anything, to begin with. Then I used the Linux “dd” command once again to write the OSMC image file to the SD card. This time I was successful and I have OSMC up and running. Clearly Kodi is very different than XBMC. I really wasn’t expecting that. It doesn’t even have a shutdown or reboot option. I will search for info on Kodi on the wiki and other sites Google will point me too. I was able to log in from my computer using SSH, install and set the ntp protocol although, for some reason, I was unable to set the IP using ifconfig.

Fortunately I didn’t wipe out my original RASPBMC SD card and can use that app until I figure Kodi out. Hopefully I’ll be able to do that before it becomes obsolete like XBMC. :wink: