Black level Epson 5050

[spaceghost2000]

Hey there, I was following another thread about black levels in the video frame vs the bars on top/bottom (2.35 content) for 4k via this thread and thought, hey I just noticed this!

Washed out blacks -- Edit: solved for content but bars still grey

OK. The bad news is your projector isn’t telling the world it can can’t handle YCC video and it can’t recognise limited range input. The good news is: We don’t care about RGB/YCC - vero is still sending YCC falling back to RGB and the projector is happy with that 2. Your projector can display full range video using either RGB or YCC (as I say many TVs don’t do YCC full range) You can therefore choose either - I recommend YCC as it avoids an extra conversion step in Vero. The splitter isn’…

So I decided to try once more to figure out what the proper settings should be and upgraded kodi via these instructions since the above thread said the newer version should have a fix:

[TESTING] Kodi v19 builds for Vero 4K / 4K +

Overview The next version of Kodi v19 (codename Matrix) was released in January. Since then, we’ve been working on bringing this up for OSMC. There have been a number of technical challenges, but we now should have a release that is of the standard you would expect from us. This update ships with our new and improved video stack, which we will document shortly on our website. Just over a month ago, we outlined a list of things you need to know before considering upgrading to this version. We…

I was using the buster 4.9 Leia and saw the note at the end of the discussion about matrix having a fix for this. This is something I’ve struggled with for a while getting the right settings, so it’s not just a v18 vs v19 issue for me (seeing same outputs unfortunately). I’ve also bypassed the AVR and getting the same black outputs as having it in-line.
I’m running a Denon X4400H to a Epson 5050UB. I have the Denon set to enhanced HDMI for 4k sources and all processing turned off. The only feature I have turned on is where it will show the volume on the screen but no other processing of the video. (though I have turned that off as well and it hasn’t changed anything).
It doesn’t matter if I set limited range on or off in kodi, it looks the same on the projector. I have EDID set to advanced on the projector, and I’m seeing a 4k 10bit 444 HDR signal according to the info, but the blacks are not as dark as they should be. I can change the color space on the proj to limited, and everything gets darker, close to where I would expect them to be. But the bars are still one or two levels higher than the content.
Setting it to auto or full on proj leaves greyish blacks everywhere. I was hoping the new devel version would show properly in auto or full. And again, I get the same output if I change kodi to limited or not (the screen blanks out while it changes, but visually no difference).
I’m just wondering if someone could please take a look at my logs and provide any hints as it seems I should be getting deeper blacks? I used to test with some NUC’s long ago and I remember changing to limited in kodi it would change the black levels on the projector (I always used full on both ends), but my testing NUC is no longer alive.

Logs:
With the AVR in-line: https://paste.osmc.tv/macepoviwu
Without the AVR: https://paste.osmc.tv/hazabekoki

Pictures:
This is with the projector set to full or auto (same result): setting kodi to full or limited doesn’t affect the output at all.

This is with the projector set to limited, much darker (everywhere) but still a shade or two above the content.

[grahamh]

@spaceghost2000

This is with the projector set to full or auto (same result): setting kodi to full or limited doesn’t affect the output at all.

Just checking, if the PJ is set to auto, you would not expect the setting in kodi to have any effect. If the PJ is set to full or limited, you should see a difference.

Full-range video in HDR is illegal, so you really shouldn’t be considering that option. I can’t say why you would not be getting the same blacks with the PJ on auto as with it set to limited. Does it report the quantisation range?

Background reading here, if you haven’t seen that yet:

How to avoid washed-out colours - Limited and Full Range settings

If the colours of your videos look washed out, and blacks aren’t really black, you may have issues with your ‘quantisation (or quantization) range’ settings. This guide is intended to help fix some edge cases that occur with some less common display devices. If you are using a regular HD or 4K TV, you shouldn’t need to read this guide. With a regular TV issues would only occur if the setting on your OSMC device is not the default value of ‘limited range’. This setting is in Settings->System->D…

As for the mask not being completely black - is this only for HDR or is it the same for SDR?

[spaceghost2000]

I don’t see anything in the projector listing the quantization, but I’m a little fuzzy on that term.

With SDR material, full/limited setting in kodi does affect the output. So same black as HDR in limited (just a shade or two higher than content, or near black).

SDR shows bt.709 10bit 4:4:4
Kodi full:proj full=Near black, auto=Near black, limited=black but colors a tad brighter
Kodi limited:proj limited=Near black, auto=Near black, full=grey

HDR shows bt.2020 10bit 4:4:4
Kodi full:proj full=greys, auto=greys but darker, limited=greys but darker
Kodi limited:proj full=greys, auto=near black, limited=near black

I think limited and auto in proj gets me the blackest mask but it doesn’t look any different than it did in buster/Leia (so I wanted to confirm whether I should be seeing darker in the new Kodi). Thank you for the quick response. If there is anything else I should check or if I misunderstood your reply please let me know.

[grahamh]

That’s all as expected except for when you set Vero to full range. But the Epson will know that full-range HDR is illegal and can be forgiven for being confused.

The near-black mask bars remain a mystery - I think only afflicting projectors.