Vero 4k+ HDR Optimizer?

First let me say I am a Vero 4k+ owner/lover
Got the Vero in October for my birthday, and its pretty much perfect. Works amazing, supports everything, remote is fantastic, best media player for local files around so thanks Sam and team!

Now my question is likely been covered but not couldn’t find it specifically so i figured I would throw up the question.

I was reading about the Panasonic DP-UB820 4k Blu-ray player that allows you to set a display unit type (for my case a JVC X570 (RS420 equivalent) and then allows the player to be enabled for HDR optimisation. I am sure you guys know better of what its actually doing but some demos I have seen are very impressive.

Is this remotely possible to achieve in the Vero? I posted this here in General Discussion as I wasnt sure if it was possible so didnt want to put it in the Feature requests section.

Sorry if this is a re-ask of a feature and look forward to your comments Sam and others.

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Hi,

Can you explain what optimisation settings are being made available on the Blu-ray player? Perhaps a couple of photos of the settings will help us understand what you mean

Cheers

Sam

It adjusts max brightness, have a look at this video: https://youtu.be/oTw_Toh0PzA

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This is exactly the video i was going to post for Sam, thanks Theetjuh and the one I watched that got me looking into this. The great part about the feature is when he compares the function of the Panny player vs how the TV handles this. The TV just darkens the whole picture where the Players HDR optimizer function focuses on the bright areas without darkening the rest of the image.

We have been looking into this. If it can be done as 1-D LUTs then we should be able to do something similar fairly easily.

But we don’t want to spend time messing with kernel 3.14 so it’s part of the bump to 4.x which is also being worked on.

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It would be indeed a great addition, but there are more important projects at the moment I guess like v18 and a newer kernel.

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@grahamh Is there somewhere I should log this so its tracked for work once the move to 4.x happens, just let me know.

Thanks all for the quick replies!

No need – just give us a nudge on this post after 4.x release and we will revisit and assess how to best achieve this.

At the moment we are in a little bit of a limbo, but there are major improvements coming.

Sam

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Awesome thanks Sam much appreciated!!

+1. It would be great to have Tone Mapping settings that could be saved on a per title basis, like we can with Brightness and Contrast.

We know it would :smiley: But that would need a hack to Kodi’s database so not sure if it’s doable.

I have an idea. Let’s discuss in MM

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Just wanted to add, that an HDR optimizer would be an absolute “killer” feature. A lot of owners of 4k displays have switched to the latest Panasonic UHD players (like UB820/824) because of this feature. It basically allows you to tone map HDR10 content adjusted to the capabilities of our output display. So sometimes too dark 4k HDR10 content will look brighter on your output display.

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Isn’t the whole point of spending money on a good tv and player to watch a title as it was it was mastered and intended to be seen by the director.

If a tv is properly calibrated by a professional that’s good at what he does all other optimizations arguably are not only unnecessary but also unwanted if you want to watch something as it was intended to be seen.

Unfortunately the whole HDR topic is much more complicated: different HDR hardware (LCD screen, OLED screen, 4k projectors, etc.) delivers different results. Even state of the art 4k projectors are less capable of delivering the full HDR experience (or would need to run in high lamp mode) to deliver good results.

AV forums are full of topics related to HDR problems resulting in too dark or too bright pictures. Coming from many years in the 1080p FullHD world, I was actually surprised, how many problems there are still around HDR (including the problem with competing HDR formats).

An HDR optimizer, which allows some tweaking for your final display hardware is therefore at this stage of the technology a good idea.

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Reading stuff like this always makes me feel less bad for still not picking up a 4k display. But I am getting a bit inpatient not sure if I can wait much longer then 2020

If something is mastered to a maximum brightness of 4000 nits, there isn’t a single commercial television on the planet that is capable of viewing it as intended.

Depending on the TV, its in-built tone-mapping may or may not do a reasonable job of compressing the dynamic range down until it fits within the physical capabilities of the display; but, either way, calibration cannot magically double or quadruple the screen’s light output, and calibration can’t control the tone-mapping algorithm.

Calibrating a display for HDR is really hard. There basically isn’t a standard for HDR calibration in the way that there is for SDR, in part because you don’t have enough control over tone-mapping.

If you happen to own a 2016 model of TV that was made by anyone other than Samsung, HDR tone-mapping will be severely broken for 4000-nit sources (and probably questionable even for 1000-nit sources).

And if you own a projector, the screen won’t come anywhere near even 1000-nit brightness, so, even with 1000-nit material, you are strongly dependent on tone-mapping which may not do a good job. There’s a reason why Panasonic UHD blu ray players are popular.

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This will come early next year.

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This is absolutely fantastic news Sam, amazing product, support and community

Thanks very much cannot wait

Crazy stuff HDR and a ton of good info from everyone here. However just to add from an enjoyment perspective I can say that my JVC X570 (aka RS420) displays a spectacular image (fauxK) and there is something to be said about a projected image and movies that I just think cannot be beat but to each their own. I also can tell (at least IMHO) that HDR content definitely looks better just not as accurate as it could be on a 4000 nit master display lol Getting it closer will be a huge step up for my already amazing viewing experience