I love my Vero 4K+, thanks for everything.
The current stable software comes with Linux 4.9.269-21-osmc.
Linux 4.9 has been end-of-life since January:
Note, [4.9.337] is the LAST 4.9.y kernel to be released.
This kernel is now END-OF-LIFE and you should move to 4.14.y at the least, 6.1.y is the better option.
Is there a timeline/ETA for a supported Linux kernel on Vero 4K+?
Thanks, and keep up the good work.
Hi,
We are still maintaining this kernel and support for this device.
We don’t have plans to move > 4.9 at this point; but we are supporting upstreaming efforts. AMLogic have dropped support for this device in their newer, vendor kernels.
For a true long term support strategy, it would be better to move to an upstream kernel. This would also allow for users to run other distributions on the device.
Many thanks
Sam
I am not sure I understand.
AMLogic have dropped support for this device in their newer, vendor kernels.
The Vero 4k+ has a S905D system-on-chip from the US company Amlogic.
Amlogic still sells this SoC. But they refuse to provide a kernel that’s supported by the Linux Kernel team?
Did Amlogic (or anyone else) ever try including their drivers (or other patches) into the original kernel at kernel.org?
We are still maintaining this kernel and support for this device.
We don’t have plans to move > 4.9 at this point; but we are supporting upstreaming efforts.
The Linux Kernel team does not update or support 4.9 any more.
What exactly do you mean by “[you] are still maintaining this kernel” and “[you] are supporting upstreaming efforts”?
The Linux Kernel team backport bugfixes from current developments to older releases.
Do you actively backport these bugfixes (and security fixes!) since the Linux Kernel team stopped doing this?
For a true long term support strategy, it would be better to move to an upstream kernel.
Does this mean that OSMC is working on:
Thanks for helping me understand.
We launched Vero 4K in 2017, offering five years of updates and support. We have actually supported the device for longer than this, and extended support further recently. See Vero 4K + support and manufacturing updates - OSMC.
There is an on-going effort to support AMLogic SoCs upstream and we have provided hardware to interested parties. Unfortunately, such efforts are far from feature complete.
We are still maintaining the 4.9 kernel downstream.
Yes – when deemed necessary. We have also backported features and not just fixes, such as Wireguard support.
Thanks for this information. I still have a few questions.
There is an on-going effort to support AMLogic SoCs upstream and we have provided hardware to interested parties. Unfortunately, such efforts are far from feature complete.
Does this mean that OSMC and/or AMLogic is trying to get the drivers (and/or other patches) for AMLogic chips like the S905D into the current kernel.org kernels?
If so, is there any way to follow this development, like an issue tracker or a code repo?
We launched Vero 4K in 2017, offering five years of updates and support.
I don’t have a 4K. I have a 4K+, which was launched in 2018, less than five years ago. How long will that be supported?
The 4k+ is still sold and still the most recent Vero product.
For a true long term support strategy, it would be better to move to an upstream kernel.
What do you mean by this? Is there a realistic scenario that the 4K+ will get “an upstream kernel” in the forseeable future? What needs to happen for this, and where can we track the progress?
Thanks for all your work!
AMLogic sponsored some upstreaming work in the past; but there focus is to support newer SoCs. There are on-going upstreaming efforts and you can view progress on the Linux mailing lists.
Support was from February 2017 when the Vero 4K family launched. The Vero 4K + is based on the same chipset family, with the same support commitments. With that said, we are still maintaining support for the Vero 4K and 4K + devices at this time with the 4.9 kernel.
No – we don’t intend to do this. But we will leave the device in a state where it’s possible to boot and use an upstream kernel. This is already possible but with limitations regarding media playback.
Thanks
Sam
There are on-going upstreaming efforts and you can view progress on the Linux mailing lists.
The Linux Kernel Mailing List archive shows a few threads about AMLogic and S905D, but not much about Vero 4k+.
The current linux branch includes a file meson-gxl-s905d-vero4k-plus.dts. That sounds promising!
The directory arch/arm64/boot/dts/amlogic/ includes seven other meson-gxl-s905d-* files.
What’s missing?
But we will leave the device in a state where it’s possible to boot and use an upstream kernel. This is already possible but with limitations regarding media playback.
What are the limitations?
Cheers!
You could indeed compile your own mainline kernel with that Device Tree and boot your device.
There are a lot of multimedia limitations at this time.
I think it goes without saying that if we were able to switch to a mainline kernel with feature parity tomorrow; we’d do so. It would be a lot less work for us.
Sam
So why can’t you? What exactly is missing?
Pardon my ignorance, but since the 4.9 kernel has patches for that, can’t they be submitted as merge-requests into mainline upstream?
Is it really easier (and better) to maintain an end-of-life LTS kernel?
To boot a mainline kernel?
Nothing.
There’s work on upstreaming, but it’s a slow and arduous task. I think it will take another several years for feature parity.
I appreciate your work on OSMC and readyness to answer questions here.
But I feel like I keep asking for specifics, but I fail to get clear answers.
Which features are missing in the current upstream Linux branch that keep OSMC from shipping a modern kernel?
Video playback of:
HEVC
VP9
H264 (stable)
3D
HD audio
You can see the state of the mainline kernel here: Hardware Support — Linux for Amlogic Meson https://gitlab.com/pages/sphinx documentation
I’m not sure how to make it clearer. The upstream kernel isn’t suitable for multimedia purposes on a set top box at this time using AMLogic chipsets. It may never fully be.
Thanks, linux-meson.com is a helpful site!
According to their Hardware Support Support Matrix, for the S905D:
Since “3D Acceleration” is supported, what do you mean by “3D” that’s missing?
I assume “HEVC, VP9, H264 (stable)” all fall under “Video Decoders”, which is “partially supported”. What’s missing for full support?
And what does “HD audio” mean? Both “Audio Subsystem” and “HDMI Audio” are supported, so I assume you mean something else?
Thanks!
I’m just guessing, but “3D acceleration” usually means hardware support for generating 3D graphics - e.g. for gaming - not playback of 3D blu ray video files.
Video playback is crippled with mainline kernels. With 3D – I was referring to 3D video playback indeed.
You could try a LibreELEC build for AMLogic devices which should give you an idea of what to expect from the latest and greatest.
It’s still a work in progress.
Users don’t usually really care about the software versions (such as the kernel) under the hood. We will keep things running smoothly on your device for some time.
I want to start off by saying i have nothing against OSMC!
CoreELEC is the go to for AMLogic Devices as that is ALL they do! their New Era Branch is running the 5.4 kernel and with the omega nightlies we also get Dolby Vision Support on the Homatics 4K+ box (S905x4-K).
i left the Vero4K+ long ago due to the old underpowered SOC and outdated OS and Kernel.
CoreELEC is more actively matained and is staying current with kernel and technology.
this is just my 2 cents, but the vero4K+ is way behind the ball. supporting old hardware is great, but it doesnt change the fact that it’s dated.
In Italy we say “chi va piano, va sano e va lontano” that in English should sound like “slow and steady wins the race” so I stay with OSMC.
I don’t want to change my hardware. The Vero 4k+ does everything I want from it.
But I am a user that does “care about the software versions (such as the kernel) under the hood”.
For one thing, the fact that OSMC runs Debian under the hood was a huge part of my decision for the Vero 4k+.
That includes other software that require recent kernel versions. For example, systemd sais:
Kernel versions below 4.15 (“recommended baseline”) have significant gaps in functionality and are not recommended for use with this version of systemd (e.g. lack sufficiently comprehensive and working cgroupv2 support).
But most importantly: Every advice for users tells them to install software updats, especially security updates. And not run unsupported software that doesn’t receive security updates. Here’s the US Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency:
Do not use unsupported EOL software.
Which is now true for Linux 4.9.
So really: I love my Vero 4k+. It just needs a modern kernel that receives security updates. Ideally an upstream kernel.
If CoreELEC works for you, then great.
In the longer term, we have new hardware launching next month and after 4.9 we will move to AMLogic’s 6.1 based kernel. We don’t see a justification in moving to AMLogic’s 5.4 kernel which CE use, as it is already considered EOL by AMLogic and is only getting essential fixes only.
OSMC is not an outdated OS – it’s based on the latest stable version of Debian, which at this time is Debian Bullseye.
Looking forward to seeing the new hardware!
The justification in using 5.4 is due to the kernel modules required for dolby vision playback are based on 5.4