Vero 4k+: OSMC/Kodi 19: support BD-J ISO menu

I do understand the sentiment, and that is why I told you from the start. Do the leg work, make a map if what needs to be done, understand the complexity, accept that the OS maintainers stand point. To much work for a concept solution, with lack of hw accelerated.

So if there is a work book to implement it, I’m sure some friendly person lends their help to put it all together, in a nice installer. But it won’t be official, since a solution won’t hold the standard of the rest of the os.

@joakim_s
The important point is that this missing function is added to the Vero 4K+ road map, with a timeline.
The developers already know the necessary changes.

Which probably means that no official devolpment will be done until there is a solution that holds the expected quality that is expected from OSMC. So back to the issue, if you want i done, take action, do something constructive that someone might cchose to build upon, if your skill set or willingness to learn new lacks to forward the issue, you can just do your best.

But demanding a change in a open source OS, without even presenting a roadmap of what needs to be done. That isn’t contributing, that is bratty behavior… “I want it, I want it, I want it… everybody else have it!”, when my kids does thing like that I ask: “If all your friends jumped of a cliff, would you?”

The benefits of such an experimental feature do not outweigh the costs (significantly larger filesystem; licensing issues).

Well, Vero is still in use. My opinion is that BD meny is nice to have feature because many many disks do not have right choice obvious, some even have the whole thing split to small chunks (i.e. to keep different versions on the same media), so it may be a PITA not to have the menu working.
Moreover, it’ simply prettier. We go see movies to see beauty things, don’t we? When I do some admin work I strongly prefer tty, but otherwise I demand eye candy desktop. Lists are boring, prune to errors and not in line with what’s expected from nice looking player.

I still use the Vero. I don’t generally use my OSMC Pi any more, except when I’m checking things for my whitelist guide. (I bought the Pi specifically for 3D playback, and that’s handled nicely by the Vero these days).

I’m using the Vero rather less than I used to; that’s partly because of the lack of Dolby Vision support, and partly because of the seriously degraded playback quality on DVD remuxes and VC-1 blu ray remuxes since we moved to the 4.9 kernel. But it’s still my standard player for h.264, h.265, and 3D blu ray remuxes, and I use it for YouTube and non-4K iPlayer stuff.

That said, any purchase choice is necessarily a compromise - nothing ever does everything you want it to. If I have to choose between BD-J support and accurate video decoding, I’ll choose decoding accuracy (with consequent superior image quality). But it would be really nice not to have to make that choice! It isn’t even just menus, I have a few discs with interactive extras and picture-in-picture video commentaries, etc. which it would be lovely to be able to play from HDD - Game of Thrones is an obvious example, and Battlestar Galactica. There’s no question BD-J support would be awesome, and I would download and install it in a heartbeat if it existed. But the lack of it is not a deal-breaker.

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@kanyck and @angry.sardine
Well, I also think it would be a great feature.

Well, I think that will be the case today and in the future.

If the Vero 4k+ is to be only a TV streaming client and MKV box, then I agree with you.
Otherwise, these reasons are excuses. Sorry
Memory no longer costs anything and every user would pay for a larger memory for this great function.
How big does the memory need to be?
The “licensing issue” is just an addition to your licence text. This can easily be done with every update and the agreement of the users as well.
You don’t have ISO files to play them?

Since you pinged me -

Yes. Every day.

Don’t really care, to be honest.

Nope.

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Few years ago I asked you why Vero costs twice as much as comparable players from another supplier and you replied that you provide much higher level of support in comparison with other suppliers. Now I can say it’s not true. In fact, I got better support from both the Kodi team and *elec maintainers than one I got here. So at the end of the day the only Vero’s real benefit is the stop button on remote. It’s really nice to have but I seriously doubt it justify the price doubling. And, TBH, I don’t think I’ll ever buy Vero again.

Is there an outstanding support ticket or some issue that we haven’t resolved, or is this related to BD-J?

*ELEC distributions do not implement BD-J menu support out of the box whatsoever.

Few years went by since then and I can’t recall the details (sorry), neither do I want to dive into it once more. But what I can recall is that I was not satisfied because my request was rejected and I had to look for a workaround. That was the very moment you’ve lost a customer. To bottomline, it’s up to you what to implement and what not to, and up to me to look for better price/performance ratio. I’ve found more value in buying a solid platform like Minix and flash *ELEC on it.
As for *ELECs I used to use BD-J on them, not sure if it’s there now (currently I don’t have any BD images), but anyway it’s half a price. Can’t see a reason to pay twice as much for the same functionality.

Do you get a product that is Linux based, without flashing etc etc, when you plug it in? Does flashing it void the hw warrenty?

Do you get the same dedicated support from the seller? Not only hw-product support but OS, reasonable discussions about feature request, user/customer addons promoted as possible solutions to other customers and even some level of support on them.

I agree support can’t be a100% positive experience for all involved, but I have never had this good experience with any other product.

That in my mind warrents a higher price, and knowing that some of the higher price goes back community in hosting, development, legal costs.

But this is just my opinion.

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My main interest in bluray support was for actual full bluray playing from discs.
So for me the concern was not so much if the menu’s would be supported, but would the disc be playable and not have bd+ encryption.

So as far as I am aware there is some requirement for java for the bd+ part of the equation and that was the issue with respect to osmc? There is a commercial piece of software which allows blaying encrypted blurays in linux (makemkv?) but it wont compile for osmc due to a missing binary for arm type processors.

These days I dont watch too many actual blurays as I can get them online in 4k usually but I would prefer to use kodi to watch blurays rather than having to use my separate (and not as good) bluray player.

If it were a matter of licensing, some kind of installable additional package to allow playing of bd+ blurays (even if it was without menus) for a reasonable fee would be something I would definetly still be interested in.
I couldnt imagine such a fee would end up being much more than like £15-20?
Although i suspect there are more than just technical limitations, anything licensed would probably need lawyers involved so its not likely worth doing unless there was significant interest from the community and people willing to pay.

A partnership with makemkv to bring extended support to the vero4k/pi would probably be more likely.

When I look at my Bluray player, how slow the menu UI is, sluggish, slow, bloated - I am happy we don’t have it on the vero device. Having java on any device not only slows it down, but will eat up all RAM in a matter of minutes just to load itself onto the OS.

PS: Before you rant about what I say → I am working for a large US corporation in the APM (Application Performance Application) market, and our main monitoring solutions goes through byte-code instrumentation to monitor the inside of Java applications in the enterprise space. So I definitely know what JAVA is, and that is also the reason I don’t specially like it on my private devices!
JAVA has NO place on any IoT device!

Yeah well I dont know the real technical background with respect to java and what it requires to support menus and/or decryption of db+.

So maybe just having a working install that could decrypt bd+ blurays would wreck performance in the process. If the Java VM needs to stay open while the disc is being accessed or something.
Obviously that wouldnt be a good scenario but I was assuming the decryption step on its own wouldnt be that bad on resources.
Never having got it to work on anything but a commercial bluray player or a fairly underpowered windows pc I couldnt say either way.

It would be a nice feature to have. And like I say something I would be willing to pay for if that was the only barrier. But if its never happens it never happens, its not the end of the world. Putin has that pencilled in for next week.

Indeed. I suspect it would need some whittled-down version of Java. IIRC there used to be a Java that ran on WinCE PDAs back in the day. It sounds like a lot of work.