Vero 4K+ suddenly stopped working

Help and Support Vero 4K / Vero 4K +
21

Hello,

We are not in disagreement that i have send back my Vero 4K+ for further investigation knowing it was possible it could not be repaired.

We are not even in disagreement about the specific point of hardware failure, i still believe you when you say the motherboard failed at the barrelconnector.

But we do, however, disagree about what exactly caused that failure. You are saying i used an incorrect powersupply, and i know i have not used any other powersupply then the original powersupply that came with the device.

And we do seem to disagree about wether my OSMC ucb hub is faulty, and a contributing factor in the failure of my Vero 4K+.

As to the first point of disagreement, my Vero 4K+ has for 20 months happily being hanging on it’s wallmount on the inside of the tv-cabinet. And it has not even been touched for 99,9% of that time. Always powered by it’s own original powersupply, and always on. I was watching tv when it died, with no other device showing problems at the same time.

That is also exactly why i investigated every device connected to the Vero 4K+ at that time, because there was no obvious cause. I used no extensioncord and the powersupply has it’s own wallsocket. And i only found the OSMC usb hub being faulty.

That is actually not true. I work at a company manufacturing motherboards/mainboards, and motherboards/mainboards can take up to 3 years to fail because of manufacturing defects or ESD problems. That is also how i know the absolute havoc backfeeding usb hubs can cause, and why i bought the OSMC usb hub that should not do this.

You expect me to believe a lot of things you stated, for example replies you have send but never arrived, canned replies that were not meant for me, and that i have used an incorrect powersupply. I have answered youre every question truthfully, but you still refuse to believe a single thing i said, for example the fact that i never used an incorrect powersupply.

This is still no answer about my OSMC power backfeeding usb hub. Is my OSMC usb hub faulty because it is backfeeding power? A simple yes or no answer will suffice.

And i have seen the “a bit of praise” thread before, and up until 3 months ago i wholeheartedly agreed with that thread. And i absolutely loved my Vero 4K+ while it was working for 20 months.

But as i said before, i just can not seem to get my point across that i have never used an incorrect powersupply. And therefore the reason for the failure of my Vero 4K+ cannot be me screwing up. I have 2 original OSMC powersuplies, the one that came with the unit and the one i ordered as a spare alongside the OSMC usb hub. So why would i ever use another powersupply then the original? There is no logic to that and it makes no sense.

So my last question for you can be answered with another simple yes or no. Do you believe that i am lying when i say i never used an incorrect powersupply?

Olav.

22

The canned reply was intended for you, in so far as it provided you with the information on where to return the item; how to label it so we knew it was from you and how to declare it via customs. The only boiler plate bit which was not necessarily applicable is that it would be replaced or repaired (as we had previously agreed)

I have answered this: no – it should not be faulty.

If you want me to look at the hub or swap it over we can do that.

People don’t do this intentionally. They tidy up / move houses / change the room the device is operated in. Then they see that the Vero has a barrel connector, they have a plug with a barrel… and they plug it in expecting it to work and then there is a problem.

There isn’t damage on the USB side. The problem is on the barrel side and I don’t see how using the official equipment could cause this issue; nor why it would occur after almost two years of usage.

23

Hello,

It should not be faulty is not the same as it is not faulty and it is intendend to backfeed power. So is my OSMC usb hub intended to backfeed power? If my OSMC usb hub is not intended to backfeed power then you are welcome to take a look at it or swap it over. If the OSMC usb hub is intended to backfeed power then there is no point in taking a look at it or swap it over, don’t you agree?

I understand people can make these kinds of mistakes, but as you could have read in my reply above: my Vero 4K+ has been hanging on it’s mountingplate connected to it’s original powersupply for 20 months. It has not been moved or disconnected from it’s powersupply, the powersupply itself has been disconnected from it’s wallsocket at the most 2 or 3 times when rearranging cables and cleaning. And of course my Vero 4K+ was shut down the propper way when i did that.

I do understand your reasoning, i really do. But my Vero 4K+ has failed powered by it’s original powersupply shortly after attaching an original usb hub that is backfeeding power.
And i really do not think that is just a “freaky” coïncidence that can be dismissed so easily.

Olav.

24

You’ve told us that the hub is not faulty by testing its output voltage. So this won’t be the issue.

Once again, the damage is not on this side.

We can get the power supply you used with the device back to rule out that as a cause of the problem.

The fact is that the device is damaged on the barrel side connector and we have only seen this in instances when a power supply with the wrong rating has been used.

25

Hello,

I never told you that i think the usb hub is not faulty, in my opinion it is faulty. And by faulty i mean that it is backfeeding power over it’s blue connecting cable. In my post above i asked you if the OSMC usb hub is intended to backfeed power over it’s blue connecting cable. So i will ask you again: is the OSMC usb hub intended to backfeed power over it’s blue connecting cable to every device it is connected to? And the answer will only have to be a simple yes or no.

And i am sorry to have to ask this over and over again, but i think i just deserve a simple yes or no answer. Don’t you agree?

I believe you when you say that that is the most logical explaination. But it is not the only explaination possible. And you have in your possession my Vero 4K+ that has only been powered by it’s own original powersupply, but wich according to you shows evidence of having used a powersupply with the wrong rating.

But for now could i just please have a definitive answer as to wether the OSMC usb hub is intended to backfeed power over it’s blue connecting cable to every device it’s connected to? Yes or no.

Olav.

26

I am not sure how to make my answer clearer.

  • The Vero 4K/4K+ can be powered via USB-A, this is acceptable. But obviously the voltage needs to be correct.
  • The hub is designed with that consideration in mind. We did think that users may in the future use the hub on other devices; so we may change that in future. I believe we made the change already but didn’t ship newer hardware with this change yet. There are some applications where the user can’t run the barrel (musem or specific B2B setup); so they just run the device off the USB power. This won’t work well if the user attaches other peripherals however.

Hopefully this makes sense.

Sam

27

Hello,

I am trying to make sense of it, but honestly i can’t. It is not even clear to me if that is a yes or no answer. What can be so hard in answering yes or no if the OSMC usb hub in intended to backfeed power to the Vero 4K+, or any other device for that matter???

So i will try and refrase my questions with my particular Vero 4K+ and my OSMC usb hub in mind:

  • Is it intended behavior of my OSMC usb hub to backfeed power to my Vero 4K+?

  • Is my Vero 4K+ intended to be powered by it’s own powersupply (barreljack) and via one of it’s usb-ports (a power backfeeding usb hub) at the same time?

And please, just yes or no answers.

Olav.

28

I don’t know how to make it clearer. Sorry.

Yes.

Yes.

31

Hello,

I did not see that one coming.

As it goes against everything i have read on this forum, including comments made by yourself, i will need some time to wrap my head around this.

As i am sure most, if not all, people who are reading this on this forum.

I was not aware that there are currently SBC’s capable of handeling dual power input simultaniously (or a few years ago when the Vero 4K+ was conceived) without serious problems in the short term or long term.

Nor have i seen any blog or post mentioning this on the OSMC site or forum, just several warnings against doing this over the last few years.

Looks like i will have some catching up to do. And if you are right, and forgive me if i do not believe so at this moment, i owe you a seriously well meant apology reagarding this paticular matter.

Second thing: i still have no acces to my support ticket, despite reacting from my emailclient. If you have already send a message outlining the options left, then please send it again because i did not reveive anything.

Olav.

32

You can power via both rails, provided that the power is in spec, which it would be using official equipment.

I will re-send you the emails. You may wish to keep these emails with your email client and can you respond to them at any time to re-open the ticket.

36

Just wanted to chime in. My Vero 4K+ suddenly stopped working while watching Wandavision and wouldn’t turn back on.

Ordered a compatible power adapter from Amazon, now working fine, so the old one must’ve malfunctioned.

37

Hello Tarkus,

Infortunately here it was the mainboard of the Vero 4K+ that was fried, at least that was what i understood.

Olav.

38

Hello,

After some time trying to wrap my head around this i find that i just can’t find a way to do that.

I bought a OSMC usb hub specifically because it would not backfeed power, now i find out that it is intended to do the opposite and to actually backfeed power. From what i understood that is a “feature” that has not been communicated yet, although the specifications have already been changed.

Besides the fact that i don’t think it is wise to change the specifications of hardware to the opposite of what people are expecting (especially after bashing the manufactures that do produce power backfeeding usb hubs), i do not think it is safe to power the Vero 4K+ from two sides simultaniously.

The barrelconnector side surely has powerprotection circuitry to protect the Vero 4K+ from powerspikes and what not, but the usb side has not. And that introduces a second point of possible failure when someting happens to the powersupply powering the usb side (powerspikes and what not). In case of trouble the barrelconnector side will shut down, but the usb side will continue to provide power. Best case scenario the Vero 4K+ will fail immediately, worst case scenario the Vero 4K+ will start to overheat from continuing receiving power and catch fire.

Because it all depends upon the correct voltage being supplied. And for that you are depended on the powersupplies working as intended, and keep working correctly. And that means no extensioncords, no switching extensioncords and no wallgangsockets.

And because the Vero 4K+ is intended to be on 24/7 i personally would like to be on the safe side of things, and not introduce several points of possible failure with any device in my house that’s on 24/7.

Olav.

39

The USB side of the device does have circuit protection.

The barrel side has some limited protection – but we can’t protect against issues fully. Putting 12v (usually next step up from 5V) across the device can break it. Anything even higher will also damage the device.

40

Hello,

That is exactly my point. And as you have told me things like extensioncords, switching extensioncords and wallgangsockets can mess this up in your opinion. And my original powersupply and the spare one/usb hub powersupply do already have a measurable difference in poweroutput of 0.3 volts.

But i have reached the point where i no longer want to try to wrap my head around this.

My Vero 4K+ has been working with no problems for 20 months, but failed using the official powersupply (no extensioncords, no wallgangsockets) shortly after attaching the OSMC usb hub that is backfeeding power. An usb hub that from everything you can read on this forum was not supposed to backfeed power, that is specifically why i bought it.

That usb hub is now worthless, i do not want to connect it to anything else because it is backfeeding power.

I have been banging my head against the same brick wall for 3 months now, waiting for answers and replies, sometimes even asking for them on a weekly basis. I have been getting canned responses that were not meant for me, and this last week i had to practically beg to get yes or no answers.

I loved my Vero 4K+ for 20 months while it was working, and was amazed at the support people were getting sorting out software problems.

But the moment i experienced a serious hardwareproblem i was in for 3 months of ever more disappointing support in my support ticket.

I learned so far that you should not use extensioncords, switching extensioncords and wallgangsockets (i did not) because they can cause the powersupply to become problematic. If you do that then you are on your own when it comes to hardwareproblems. If you buy an OSMC usb hub and it turns out to backfeed power then you’re also on your own when it comes to hardwareproblems.

For me the Vero 4K+ has an amazing out of the box experience, but when it comes to reliability in the long term, specifications that are actually the opposite of what they should be, and the disappointing experience with my support ticket have shattered every faith i have in this concept.

Getting another Vero 4K+ will not change the uncertainties left after my late Vero 4K+ died, in fact it will be placed in the same configuration of attached devices and original powersupply-wise. And that configuration lead to my Vero 4K+ failing, although everything was as it should be according to the discussion in my support ticket.

For now, this is where my ride with OSMC and the Vero 4K+ will end. Or simply put, i just lack the courage to try out another unit. Perhaps i will wait untill the OSMC concept has matured more, specifications are clear and unambiguous, and there is no need to deal with oversees support (meaning a local store, with clear guarantee). But until then i will stick with some trusted and proven devices to power my home cinema experience.

Olav.

41

We advised that the device is out of warranty, but we would happily try and resolve the problem for you. As you shipped this in December near the Christmas period, there were some delays in getting this item back and processing it.

This is not the case.

Once again: the damage to the device has not occurred on the USB side of the hardware.

I can appreciate the uncertainty – but you should also consider that your experience is not typical. Vero 4K has been on the market since February 2017 and Vero 4K + since August 2018. There are a lot of users still using their original devices today with your exact setup. The reason why I took such a keen interest on receiving your item back was to work out what had gone wrong. We have arrived at the conclusion that the device is damaged from using the incorrect power supply, and this is based on the damage to the board and previous experience from customers where this has happened before.

Hopefully you can consider OSMC and OSMC products in the future. We have outlined some options available to you in the ticket.

Thanks

Sam

42

Hello,

I will not get into another headbashing with you about the damage and it’s cause, you say incorrect powersupply and i say original powersupply.

I have never lied about that, nor have i ever seen any reason to. You choose not to believe me, that is your decision.

But i do follow your reasoning when it comes to the proven durability of devices, that’s why i am returning to those devices that have proven their durability. And if for the people on this forum that is a Vero than they should stick with that. For me personal my Vero 4K+ was just not durable, it failed and i do not know why. Hence the uncertainties.

I understand you defending OSMC and the Vero 4K+, and i do wish you the best with the OSMC concept. It is just that i have lost faith in the concept, as outlined in my previous post, and i am perfectly comfortable with my decision not to try a second Vero 4K+.

Olav.

43

Something that I don’t think has been mentioned here was the possibility of a power surge causing an over-voltage.

I have a very early production Vero4K and it’s still going strong. With the original power supply. I also have a OSMC hub. It was connected to the Vero4K for several months, but I moved it to my NAS as the original Vero4K didn’t have the network speed to act as a NAS. The same OSMC hub has since been moved to an old desktop that is my new ‘NAS’. Everything is working fine here still.

So your experience has definitely been very different from mine, and most other Vero4K users.

45

Hello,

That would be some kind of explaination, but i was sitting in front of the tv when it failed. And none of my other devices (tv, stereo or lights) showed any signs of whatever went wrong, not even a little hickup.

I am glad you have such good experiences with your Vero 4K and OSMC usb hub.

Olav.

47

Power surges can do strange things. We had lightning strick a tree about 20 feet from the house. A ‘feeler’ entered the house via a open window in the office. No electronics in the office were harmed. The feeler continued into the living room and struck the wood stove with a TV only a few feet away. No harm to the TV. But here’s the strange part, a 8 port ethernet switch in the basement was fried. A laptop hardwired to that switch was fried. A TV not connected to the network was fried. The amp under the TV (and everything else including another computer connected to the switch) survived. So the most damage was in the basement, not where the lightning actually entered the house.