The final/stable release of Kodi 19 (Matrix) is right around the corner. How long can Vero 4K+ users expect to wait before Kodi 19 shows up in OSMC? I’m not necessarily looking for an exact date, just an honest ballpark.
The reason I bolded “honest” is because I’ve seen a few posts now regarding when users can expect something and it never happens, or hasn’t happened yet with no progress updates given. Not to say that the responses were lies or intentionally deceptive, just that there’s a lack of communication imo for those of us who these kinds of questions are important to.
I appreciate the response but also believe it’s dismissive. A reply that could mean a day, a week, a month, a year, a decade or longer, or never can’t be called an “honest ballpark”. It implies you have no clue and I don’t believe that for a second - you’re fully aware of how far or far back the progress is. It’s disappointing but that’s okay. It gives me clarity on whether or not OSMC products are right for me. I bought one, it turned out not to be a good fit, no harm no foul.
That response isn’t being dismissive. As it stands right now we don’t know what we don’t know and throwing out a date, even a ballpark, would be dishonest. The intent is to provide a release as soon as possible following the release of Kodi 19 stable. Development of earlier branches had already stopped and focus had shifted to this release quite some time back.
With that being said I don’t understand how this would be a deal breaker in the first place. Kodi 19 (on all platforms) is likely to be a bit of a rough ride. Most users would likely welcome a cautious approach to minimize the amount of issues they are likely to run across. Early release/test builds will be available before general release. You will be able to install that to get it sooner than most if you want.
The problem is that you are asking me to give you a release date for something of which I am not the release manager. Kodi is an external project - with its own release manager and goals. These dates have been missed and pushed back in the past, hence why we are now only starting to get near a final version of Kodi v19 after over two years.
The planned release date of Kodi v19 has already been missed. It would be dishonest to advise you of a date that I am not in control over, and don’t necessarily believe.
Kodi v19 will show up for testing soon, but I don’t intend to release it as a stable build for a while.
Jumping from Kodi v19 RC1 to Final is quite ambitious, and seems to be done just to satisfy some dates. The problem is that if this date is accurate, we will likely want to wait for at least a one point release, and significant testing feedback on the forums before rolling it out as a stable upgrade.
Another popular distribution that supports the Raspberry Pi are seriously considering not releasing Raspberry Pi support for some time until after the v19 release has matured. Ideally, we want to release for all platforms at the same time (Pi 2/3, 4 and Vero 4K/4K+).
There’s your honest answer. It’s not a date – but it should give you some insight in to the rationale behind the next release. We have already started on bringing up Kodi v19 for OSMC some time ago.
Personally – unless you see a benefit of Kodi now using Python 3.x, I don’t see a need to rush in to pushing Kodi v19 as a stable release. It can sit on the forums as a test build for a while for those that don’t mind some breakage and want the latest and greatest.
I’ll agree to disagree with you on that. You can blanket answer any question saying you don’t know what you don’t know. The reason that’s dismissive is because “you” certainly do know, if not entirely at least in large part, what’s necessary. Are you really going to suggest devs are completely clueless as to what’s needed to transition? Do you expect people to believe they’re clueless as to minimum requirements; kernel, drivers, software such as python version, patches, etc? I fully understand there is always the possibility of unknowns that come up. However, to imply you have no clue what-so-ever? I know better.
That being said, I can think of a number of reasons why devs would not want to make any public statements regarding development. If that’s the case, simply admitting it is sufficient and perfectly acceptable. Providing even remotely ballpark info may not be in the business’s best interest. We don’t need to get into that, I’m not asking, and it would be inappropriate to do so publicly anyways.
Lastly, I asked my question because it’s relevant to my setup/use-case, not a general question applicable to most users. I agree with your assumptions about what most users likely want. I’m not most users though and speculating why a prolonged delay moving to Kodi 19 would be a deal breaker (for me) is pointless. I didn’t bother describing my setups & configuration because it doesn’t matter or change anything. Looking back, it probably would’ve been less typing.
I didn’t ask you for a release date. In fact, I specifically said, “I’m not necessarily looking for an exact date, just an honest ballpark.” I’ve closely followed Kodi 19’s development since it started and am aware of many of the delays and setbacks it has experienced. Certainly any project dependent on its progress suffers the same delays. My question was about after Kodi 19 has been released, not from today’s date or any date sooner. Maybe I didn’t make that clear.
This kind of response was what I was hoping for in the beginning. It’s useful insight for me to consider moving forward. I have several Kodi setups, some of which are dedicated to “regular” use while others are dedicated to testing. I have a bigger picture my time and effort gets divided into, not just one simple setup and a tv. I don’t need everything to be absolutely current but when the gap gets too wide, for example when the last available test build is 7 months old and too much has changed since then, I have to consider whether or not the extra work it takes to keep the “old” setup is worth it anymore. None of this applies to most users but then my question never had them in mind in the first place.
It is not a blanket statement, and I certainly do not know. There has been work on pieces but there has not been a test build that has made it out to any significant number of people. As such nobody knows what issues will come up. Just take a look at the 4.9 testing thread to see how this process can play out. I don’t think anybody expected the issues with that kernel to drag on for such a long period of time but as long as their are significant issues unresolved a general release would not prove beneficial to most users.
As an unpaid volunteer what possible motivation do I have to lie to you? If what your trying to imply is that RPi 4 support is dragging to keep sales of the Vero up, then there is a problem with that logic. The RPi 4 can best the Vero in certain metrics on a spec sheet but if you run Kodi on LE or Pi OS including v19 you will find that there is software support missing to fully implement all the hardware features. This software support is coming, and lagging, from the hardware manufacture (the Raspberry Pi Foundation), not us, not LE, not Kodi. Until that work is completed the RPi 4 is not going to have the same feature set as the Vero, and as such is not a reason to delay Kodi v19 as that work is completely unrelated.
I’ve already said I agree to disagree regarding whether devs are completely clueless (as you implied) or not as to what’s generally needed for the transition. Not sure why you want to keep beating that horse, it’s not going to change anything.
And about publicly sharing development information possibly not being in a business’s best interest I said, “We don’t need to get into that, I’m not asking, and it would be inappropriate to do so publicly anyways.” Why you immediately start speculating, in public, is beyond me, and doing so as a dev(?) makes it worse. I didn’t imply anything, only made a very broad generalized statement that could probably be found in a Business 101 textbook. You’ve taken that and made it about something specific, planting seeds about how things might be manipulated to affect sales. I’d ask that you not continue down the path of speculation and assumption. It’s bad PR which is exactly why I said, “it would be inappropriate to do so.”
Monkey, can you provide a ballpark figure on when you plan to evolve beyond the “fast food” mentality of a petulant 7-year-old? Not looking for a specific date, just an estimated timeframe.
I guess I could call myself a dev, and I have to say there’s a big difference between having a clear idea of what needs to be done (which we have) and being able to put a timeframe on achieving it.
Kodi removed support for AMLogic devices completely late last year and some cleverer people than me sorted that out quicker than I expected, but other things which you’d have thought would be quick take longer than expected. At the end of the day, OSMC has no obligation to upgrade to Matrix at all - customers already have a capable system that does what it says on the tin. But devs and users alike want to have the newest and shiniest and that’s what keeps us going - at whatever speed we can manage.
I realize there are actual costs involved in supplying an open source project. If you look at any large open source project you will find they spend money, and that money comes from somewhere. The sales of hardware allow this project to continue to exist.
So you do understand there’s a for-profit business directly tied to this open source project. I guess it’s the actual business side of it that you don’t understand. shrug