Both are connected to my Denon amp which goes to my TV.
Both used the same Technicolor (expert) presets and had DTM turned off.
Both are connected to my Denon amp which goes to my TV.
We have two issues:
- Vero is typically sending 1000nit maximum display lumi and no MaxCLL/MaxFALL. The new kernel does pass through all static metadata in tests done so far so will solve that.
- despite Vero sending consistent static metadata (what it sends depends only on the source), the results reported above, all using the same sources, show there is a variation in response of ppl’s displays, depending on model, year and settings
It’s the second one I’m scratching my head over. User-defined tonecurves should help, and we know how to do that.
Let us know if it plays everything exactly as you expect and I’ll ask Sam to put it on the test bench.
hm, isn’t this:
kind of… contradictory? Or did you mean to write “we were struggling with”? To me it sounded like even with the new kernel the metadata won’t be correctly transmitted if the SEI parser randomly and inexplicably decides to not parse that data.
No - the metadata and parsing is solved in the new kernel.
What’s puzzling us is whether this will keep everyone happy, or we will still see varied responses.
That’s good to hear. Hopefully we get to test it soon, the return period on my newly bought device ends in 14 days and I’d rather keep the Vero
What device do you consider to be a good alternative to Vero4K+? I have heard about Odroid N2 but have not read a comprehensive comparison between the two.
I understand that none of these boxes are a “perfect” solution for everyone but with tech evolving so fast there are bound to be some devices which check more boxes compared to others.
It wouldn’t make sense (at least in my mind) for @HDRpotato to recommend the N2 as a new solution if he has issues with the SEI parser. Both devices implement the same SEI parser and CE on the N2 also implements OSMC’S CS/SD switching approach in their kernel, albeit with some caveats.
It may be hasty to look towards new hardware considering the improvements we have around the corner.
I don’t think this is the right place to talk about this.
Oh I am definitely not looking to replace the Vero4k+ I have and use as a daily driver. It was just a question to keep myself informed. As I said there’s no one-size-fits-all box as far as I know but Vero, for me, checks most of the boxes that I care about.
I read some info a few days ago about N2 but never researched the product in any great detail. This thread got me curious if N2 did “HDR” any better than Vero4k+ as I have a LG B7 OLED as well. I haven’t tested the files @HDRpotato posted - next week probably.
Thanks for the explanation about OSMC/N2 HDR handling. Glad you guys are working on further developments.
In hindsight, you are correct.
Indeed. To put it simply, as we have written most of the HDMI TX code improvements that are used on 4K + and even the N2 ourselves, we have the best chances of improving it further
Ok so I just tested the three files @HDRpotato posted. Results are below:
LG B7A OLED internal player using a flash drive:
1000 nits: 87-88%
2000 nits: 84-85%
4000 nits: 90%
Vero 4K+ connected directly to the above TV:
1000 nits: 87-88%
2000 nits: 87-88%
4000 nits: 87-88%
Playing via the LG internal player, the 1000-nits file displayed flashing bars all the way up to 87-88% (really close to the 4000-nits clipping point). 2000 and 4000 nits files behave much better.
Playing through Vero4k+ all three files seem to behaving identically ~ 87-88%.
A word on TV settings:
I am using the technicolor Expert settings suggested in this spreadsheet that I found through one of the AV forums. The only difference is that for my HDR settings “Edge Enhancer” is turned off. Are these settings wildly off compared to what some of you guys are using - would love to hear some feedback.
I see those same results on my C7. To my amateur mind (at least in regard HDR playback) both the Vero 4K+ AND the TV aren’t handling these files correctly.
Welcome to the HDR minefield! It doesn’t work a lot of the time, and we’re still struggling to make it work - all these years later, on so many different devices. But hey, at least the Vero 4K line plays 24hz material at 24hz. The Apple TV 4K can’t even do that correctly, playing 24hz material at 23.976hz. Just…I can’t even…
Yea the 1000-nits behavior on LG’s internal player seems wrong and what bothers me most. I can live with a sub-$150 device not correctly handling the latest tech but if the $1500+ TV isn’t doing what it’s supposed to do then that is rather inexcusable.
I believe @HDRpotato mentioned earlier in the thread that 1000-nits file shows flashing bars around 74% which should be the expected result. I am interested in finding out why I don’t see the same result - difference in settings perhaps? One difference in my settings vs what @HDRpotato mentions is dynamic contrast. I followed the spreadsheet linked in earlier post and have that setting set on low while @HDRpotato has it turned off I believe. Will play around with that once I get home.
@HDRpotato - can you please review the linked settings and point out any other differences between these settings and yours.
Our settings should be pretty much the same (except I have Dynamic Contrast off as “Low” activates Dynamic Tone Mapping and I don’t like that). Since two 2017 owners said their internal player has flashed the 1000 bars all the way up, I’m gonna recheck on mine. I’ll be gone most of the weekend so I’m not sure when that’ll be. Still, the Vero shouldn’t flash all 3 the same but let’s see what the upcoming update might change.
Yep, I’m going to see how the upcoming update changes things. Hopefully for the better! I have faith in Sam et al.
Has anyone tried burning these test patterns to disc and tried playing them with an actual BD player?
It can be done but don’t need to burn it to a disc. Most players should have USB port to plug a flash drive with these files on it.
@HDRpotato will be interesting to see how the N2 behaves with your OLED when you get it. For me & my Q9FN its pretty much perfect and easily on par if not better than my Oppo. Doesn’t play DV (never will) and HDR10+ (currently - bug) but I use Oppo for those.
As Sam says, a lot of the code in N2/CE is from OSMC. Agree with your comment on keeping the Vero. My Vero 4K+ is currently relegated to bedroom as there is no way I can bring myself to watch HDR on it until the MaxXXX issue is resolved. There are some people on here who object very vociferously to that statement but why would I? I don’t have time to watch HDR movies multiple times until I get the best possible picture.
I used DVS HDR Calibration disk patterns and Spears & Munsil Benchmark UHD disk to test & play (when I am bored). For SDR, I use Display Calibrations Ted’s Disk. Was in the market to buy an Accupel Pattern generator but sadly its been discontinued. Was supposed to the best one out there. The N2 matches or betters the Oppo for my QLED. But, may be different for OLED.
Also use Xrite iPro 2 Spectrometer & IPro Display 2 Calorimeter to calibrate using CalMan.
All the pattern disks I mentioned have been proven to be bit perfect. In case anyone feels like blaming them. Or, one could just blame the test patterns and be done with it …… sigh ……