Remote not responding / 2 USB ports dead after Aug 25 upgrade

Help and Support Vero V
94

Sam - so, just to be clear, due to a potential component / hardware failure, those of us who relocated the internal dongle to the only remaining active port (external) are basically left with nothing, because we “opened the box”?

Surely the right thing to do would be to just offer those affected with a replacement device (if, as you say the failure rate is extremely low), regardless of the warranty situation or dongle re-location, & if necessary, OSMC can seek recompense from the manufacturer of the failed component?

This IMO would be seen as great customer support, & continue to justify why OSMC stand above their competition in terms of support & service for their customer base.

95

As long as you have not opened the device, there will always be a resolution for this issue in one way or another as outlined above.

If you have opened it then unfortunately we can’t offer one. I never expected nor asked people to open their device and it introduces a potential for other problems.

We have to stand firm on this one.

Sam

1 Like
96

I must say I feel very let down by this decision.

97

I’m not chiming in on things like these very often…But if a device by a bigger manufacturer shows a fault that you assume might be circumventable or you believe you can asses and potentially fix yourself, you would, of course, always, assume the manufacturer would still replace the device in case a fault is indeed identified by the manufacturer without any questions asked, no matter the condition of the device - even after you’ve opened it and broken all warranty seals. Sure, that’s how things work. Who are we kidding here? If you opened, let’s say, a Denon AVR because something seemed off to you, Denon would never, ever replace it afterwards at no cost.

IMHO, if you’re taking things into your own hands, you’re taking things into your own hands and you should own it - also the disappointment.

4 Likes
100

so says a man who doesn’t have a faulty box! :grin:

101

But a man who has a faulty Denon AVR. Sry, I stand to my argument.

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104

It does say in the supplied booklet that you shouldn’t attempt repairs on the equipment yourself.

105

Unfortunately I have exactly the same issue.

Immediately after installing the November update the remote stopped working. Used the remote to start the update and after the reboot the remote no longer works.

My unit is from September 2023, worked fine so far. No other USB devices plugged in, and unit is unopened.

I know this thread seems to discourage the idea it might be update related, but at least for me it happened right with the update. Remote works fine – couple minutes later (exactly after the reboot from the update) it doesn’t work anymore.

106

Hi all…

@sam_nazarko

It’s very interesting to read your post… Thank you for finally speaking clearly!

I’m pleased to know that my instinct was not wrong at all and, even if some of my guesswork was not spot on, the big picture is mostly the one I figured-out even with the limited details of what was running behind the scenes I had.

So, in the end, there definitely WAS a common cause to the several reported failures related to USB devices (Internal or external, doesn’t matter for me now…) and yet, responding to my post:

Sorry, Sam, that doesn’t sound casual to me: there must be a common reason for these USB faults…

You affirmed:

There isn’t.

Sorry but, in my eyes, and by what you wrote yesterday, that is NOT the honest truth.

Your description of what was going on since November 2024 clearly tells that you, together with the manufacturer and engineers from the USB IC supplier were after something possibly wrong IN THE HARDWARE you were selling.

I’m sure that, at that time, you still had not figured out what was actually happening but, the way I see it and as far as I know, even when you finally did, there was no notice of your findings to potentially affected users, nor any hint to those posting here about their troubles with remotes/dongles/USB or contacting you on the support channel.

At the very least, I think it is safe to say that some hardware parts and/or circuits of your product, precisely the ones you mention in your post, were marginally (If not straight poorly…) designed, with narrow tolerance to some environmental (Power Supply, Ambient Temp…) parameters.

This is INHERENT to the product, and not something that happened by chance or caused by some unfortunate external event.

In other words, an hidden potential fault in each device, ready to go-off on some, not so extraordinary after all, conditions: Power fluctuations not well managed by the (Original) power supply, or increase in device + ambient temp, by what you wrote.

You say that the incidence of the failures was not great but was “acceptable”… you can say this from YOUR point of view, Sam… I beg to differ in my view given that, as a matter of fact, this exposed several users to the choice of having the units replaced, but at a cost (Shipping to-from UK, with all what’s involved since Brexit, isn’t cheap at all, nor hassle free!) or accept to keep a faulty unit, losing some connectivity, and circumvent the issue with an external dongle.

Me, as well as others, from what I read here after you post, won’t even be entitled to such choices, because we opened the units in search of a fix to a fault that, again, was EMBEDDED in the unit right from the start!

A defect like that, in most countries if not in all, is something that extends manufacturers’ responsibilities beyond their conventional warranties durations.

And, again, I’m not sure that simply opening a device in search for a solution to a fault, out of the warranty period and of course without causing any evident further damage, would automatically void the rights of customers that are obviously victim of a poor design/engineering case.

@Chillbo

I also own a Denon AVR, and I don’t think your comparison actually makes complete sense.

That is an entirely different beast to deal with… Heavy unit, difficult to handle, much more complicated structure, several boards inside…

Much less probable that I’d decide to open it up in case of troubles unless I suspected something very obvious and hopefully easy to trace like a disconnected cable or an internal blown fuse.

And even if I opened it, when out of warranty terms, I doubt that Denon Service would refuse a repair.

I don’t understand so much fuss about this opened units issue, anyway…

I know for sure that, when I had a fault on my out of warranty HAM Radio Yaesu Transceiver, a top-tier one, costing a few thousands EUR, I had all the schematics at my disposal and no prohibition to get inside the equipment. I got halfway in the troubleshooting then, lacking the proper equipment to go on with the repair, I resorted to Yaesu’s service, I told them what I had done, and they completed the repair with no exceptions.

BTW, I’m already too long again and I’m afraid that, whatever we may say and for several reasons, we have very little chances to see our rights assessed and granted here but, sorry Sam, that’s not what I’d call “Great customers’ support”.

Too bad!

Regards

Joe

107

I’ll reply to this tomorrow. It’s late here.

108

I’ve got a remote that doesn’t work and (I think) an inconsistent usb 3.0

I haven’t opened the device and nor would i, I’m using another remote and using my hub on the USB 2.

109

The number of failed units seems to be climbing (see thread below), so I have doubts re the manufactors claims about a very low failure rate - we must be easily into double figures here now, & that’s not counting the folk who’ve either not reported the issue on this forum, or liaised directly with OSMC.

Vero V remote no longer working after update - Help and Support - OSMC Forums

Also, if I bought a new unit, my concern would be the same happening again, after say 12-18 months. The warranty says 12 months, but surely it should be covered by Sale Of Goods Act / Sale Of Goods (ie fit for purpose, & last a reasonable time (up to 6 years))?

110

Hi @pmnicotera

Respectfully, the only users here that seem to be complaining are those that have opened their units. I stand firm that customers that opened their devices won’t receive repairs free of charge and I think this is reasonable

Hopefully you can appreciate our attention to customer service responding on Christmas Eve.

There is pretty much no downtime currently and it’s crazy here.

But please read the room politely.

We don’t know if an issue is inflicted by you when you open a device.

I am not sure why you thought you knew better than us to open a device first

If you open the device, you forfeit your warranty and any free repairs. Sorry but I will hold firm on this.

It’s nothing to do with the UK’s position with the EU / Brexit. I am not sure where that was brought up at all.

If you genuinely believe this, then the issue should have occurred from the start and you have rights you can exercise regarding this.

But you should also understand that under EU law you need to give us a right to repair and opening the product yourself impedes our ability to make a realistic assessment of this.

The onus is on you to prove that there is a poor design case.

The facts are as follows:

  • If you have a problem with Vero V, we will put it right within warranty
  • If there is a problem outside of warranty, we will do our best to remedy this and there are several options available to you.
  • If you have a problem with the remote controller or USB port, we will solve this for you one way or another if you are the unfortunate 3 in 1000
  • We have monitored and improved the situation.

It’s impossible to have a zero failure rate of consumer electronics.

You did not buy a HAM radio when you bought a Vero V. You bought legally regulated radio equipment where modification is a potential criminal offence in your country.

We also tell people to email support@osmc.tv with their details because posting their personal details here isn’t wise or allowed.

Respectfully, if your Denon receiver was to break, would you expect or want Denon to ask for your order information (including address) in this post here?

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111

Absolutely. Any warranty provided by OSMC is supplementary to any provided to you in your jurisdiction. We have no ability nor will to override any consumer rights.

The UK has some of the the strongest consumer laws in the world and you do indeed have a six year warranty if you believe the Vero V has an inherent fault.

You would need to show that there is an inherent fault on date of purchase as six months have now passed.

I wouldn’t be concerned, unless you planned to also open that unit..

1 Like
112

Have you had any reported failures of units using the new chip (CH334R)?

113

Hi @sam_nazarko and all…

Sam, let me set this straight right from now…

I don’t want to start a war here and, while it is true that we are on opposite sides of the fence, what follows is written without any intention to offend or detract from the fact that OSMC’s products are very good and that your support is obviously at an high standard, usually.

I just believe that, in this very special case, users haven’t been told the true story at the beginning, to start with, and some of them, myself included, are being let down straight away.

But, even if it is a single unfortunate situation, let me say it casts a shadow on an otherwise great product/company.

Let’s go…

No wonder, Sam… Would you expect differently?

Also the many that, for several reasons, still haven’t realized they have a faulty unit are not complaining… or the ones that have accepted the replacement (External) dongle as a quick solution.

Hopefully you can appreciate our attention to customer service responding on Christmas Eve.

There is pretty much no downtime currently and it’s crazy here.

Of course I do, and I wish all the very best for this holiday season and for the new year!

We don’t know if an issue is inflicted by you when you open a device.

Oh, well… It’s a simple device, in the way it is made… A snap case, a single board… The user, knowing there is a Receiver USB Dongle inside decides to open it because original warranty is expired (12 Months only… if it was EU, it would have been 24 Months and I wouldn’t have opened the unit!) and wants at least check if unplugging/replugging the USB Dongle in the same/in another USB port solves the problem. Then decides to resont to your support and, eventually, you get the unit in your lab. You check it and, if you see signs of damage possibly related to users’ actions, you take appropriate measures. But if the user didn’t break anything and if the fault you find is something you already know is happening to “some” units because of marginal/poor design, well… I do think you still owe that customer some special attention.

If you open the device, you forfeit your warranty and any free repairs. Sorry but I will hold firm on this.

And here we have, in my opinion, another problem, Sam…

You say, in another post above:

It does say in the supplied booklet that you shouldn’t attempt repairs on the equipment yourself.

I have the booklet, and it reads, literally:

Troubleshooting
You may experience some difficulty in operating your Vero or getting it set up. We have assembled a list of common issues.

Do not attempt to repair the device yourself, and do not open the unit as there is a risk of electric shock.

See? You explicitly warn users that opening the device poses a risk of electric shock, and you obviously don’t want to be held liable for that, but I see no explicit information to users, in any part of the supplied documents, that opening their units will void any residual right to proper support!

I know we’re walking on a thin line, Sam, but since you mention the booklet, you should know what’s written in there!

It’s nothing to do with the UK’s position with the EU / Brexit. I am not sure where that was brought up at all.

Not your fault, of course, but shipping to/from UK is not the same as shipping to/from any other UE Country… Cost of shipment is higher and there is considerable hassle with customs/taxes for the occasional shipper. But this is not relevant to the core problem, I agree.

Me: a fault that, again, was EMBEDDED in the unit right from the start!

You: If you genuinely believe this, then the issue should have occurred from the start and you have rights you can exercise regarding this.

Ok… I’ll rephrase: the underlying cause of the issue (Marginal/Poorly designed circuits or selected parts!) was in the unit right from the start. The fault was not present right then, but appeared as soon as the (Not so special) conditions aligned unfavorably. And, when it happened, it could also remain undetected, but still present, depending on users configurations/use cases. A “latent defetct”, in simple words!

The onus is on you to prove that there is a poor design case.

True, Sam… and as a matter of fact I don’t have any way to prove that but, I’m reasonably sure, everyone reading this thread will see where is the original problem.

You even changed part of the circuit involved, as a countermeasure to what you, undoubtedly, also had realized was happening.

Marginal/Poor design is inherently admitted, the way I see it.

The facts are as follows:

  • If you have a problem with Vero V, we will put it right within warranty

And, from another post of yours, Sam:

  • If the device is in warranty, they will receive an immediate replacement free of charge.

This is the only situation you took appropriate and due action, in my opinion. You had to because of warranty commitments, obviously…

If there is a problem outside of warranty, we will do our best to remedy this and there are several options available to you

Let’s see what these options are:

If the device is out of warranty, but has not been opened, they can choose the best option for them:

They can order a replacement receiver which can be attached to a side port on the box. This is most convenient as delivery is quick and the device does not need to be returned

And this DOES NOT SOLVE THE ISSUE, as it leaves the customer with a partially faulty unit and one less available USB port. But you present that as the best option as it is quick and hassle-free.

They can return the device for replacement, but this can take up to 20 weeks (we aim for less). Due to legal requirements, shipping needs to be covered by the customer.

This would be the proper action for everyone having the issue, of course, but it is the most expensive one for you and you DISCOURAGE users to freely choose it, warning users it would take 20 Weeks (TWENTY WEEKS! Compare that with “IMMEDIATE REPLACEMENT”, if covered by warranty!) and they would have to carry the costs and hassle of a shipment!

For some customers that order additional devices, the replacement can be shipped back with the new order.

So, if users were to order new devices, a replacement is miraculously available in short time!

I really wonder why the only proper, yet expensive, action is the slow and uncomfortable one.

Clever wording, Sam… I bet you had close to zero (Faulty) boxes returns…

Finally:

If you have a problem with the remote controller or USB port, we will solve this for you one way or another if you are the unfortunate 3 in 1000

Oh… I’m pretty sure, again basing my impressions on experience, as I don’t have facts, that the numbers may quickly climb from that (apparently) meager 3/1000.

Otherwise you probably wouldn’t have been so worried of a potential mass return of units with a faulty USB circuitry, wrecking havoc in OSMC statement of account.

But, by know, it’s clear to me and I believe to those in my same position also, that we’re beating a dead horse here, as there is ZERO will to admit that some of the units, probably many more that what is already evident here, were ill-fated since they were born. And I can understand your reluctance, in your shoes, as doing so would potentially open the proverbial Pandora’s Vase.

So, I believe all cards have been played and are on the table… I call it a day.

I’m not happy, of course, and I feel let down enough to be very doubtful about future purchases from OSMC, but it has been an interesting chat… thank you for keeping up with my long posts, Sam.

There is just a final curiosity I have, because at this point I have nothing more to lose…

In rare circumstances, the temperature generated by the set top box during long term operation combined with external usage environments is too high. This can cause the USB port to not be recognised. This is repairable via an air-gun.

And, from a previous post that was quickly damped:

Sam: 21 Nov

I don’t think dtech needs support because he soldered his own solution

@dtech said:

Yes, I had a workaround to overcome the internal USB issue, but since it would obviously void the warranty for other users, I didn’t even think of publishing it.

Well… I already have an idea of what I want to try and see if it fixes my ports, but would appreciate more info about both statements, as I may want to try and revive my unit, if possible.

While I understand that the information probably doesn’t belong here “in the wild”, I hope in some DM or the like.

Have great holidays, everyone!

Joe

115

Hi Joe,

I hope you’ve had a good Christmas. I wanted to reply to this while it’s fresh in my head.

You’re entitled to believe that, but that is not the case. Users that have reported issues with their remote have been given a resolution. That is: those users that have not opened their device.

No, because if you haven’t opened your device, there is a resolution.

No. You don’t start opening things when they don’t work. There is a lot you can break by opening the device. This is why there are seals on the device. The antenna wires can be trivially broken.

This is not correct.

The problem is that a lot of your post is speculation / putting words in my mouth.

Again.. this is not correct.

You do realise that every company constantly evaluates their product over a release cycle and refines it over time. This doesn’t always mean there is an inherent fault. It’s the same reason that you get product revisions on every device (from a Raspberry Pi to the SoC in your Vero V). The goal is always about optimising the product and reducing potential incidence of outcomes.

It solves the issue for those that simply want this solution.
Otherwise, they have another option as outlined.

Again, incorrect. Twenty weeks is the worst case scenario. So far I have seen that the latest it has taken us has been five weeks. But twenty weeks for an out of warranty unit to be repaired for free seems reasonable. I’m very relaxed regarding warranty repairs and we have repaired / replaced units out of warranty in the past where a repair is possible.

Again, incorrect. They will have to wait for the replacement to be repaired. Please don’t spread lies.

Incorrect again.

This number has been stable since November 2024, when we started to investigate the matter after initial reports.

The takeaway here is that if users experience a problem with their remote, it will be resolved. Just don’t open the device. That’s where I draw the line.

Have a good New Year,

Sam

3 Likes
116

Hi Sam and all…

Last post on the matter, I swear, and shouldn’t be too long! :wink:

Oh I did, indeed… With family, also watching stuff on Vero V, with sons! :wink:

Hope you too had good time with your family…

Seals? As far as I can see, there is a single seal that has to be pierced to get to a screw underneath, and that is the screw that holds the board to the bottom part of the case. That seal is also the ID label of the device and, as a matter of fact, even on my unit it’s untouched as I didn’t need to remove the board from the case (So far…). There is no other seal that prevents nor warn you not to open the case.

The other 4 screws that keep the top and bottom parts of the case together are, and that is almost the norm with that sort of cases, under the self-sticking rubber feet… but I won’t call them a seal!

Speculation yes, of course… I don’t have any insider in OSMC telling me what was really happening behind the scenes about this USB/Remote issue, and until your comprehensive post here a couple of days ago, you never told the true and complete story.

But I don’t see were I was putting words in your mouth… You said things your way, but said things are not Black/White and I’m reading these things my way.

I already said I know we are on opposite sides of the fence, in this.

Of course I do realize that, Sam, and I’m even happy when a company does keep up with improving a product. But “Improvement” has a different meaning that “Fixing” and the circuitry change you described even with your own words was meant to avoid or reduce further occurrencies of a FAULT that was actually already happening and that you recognized was there.

Not sure I understand… Why on Earth THE REPLACEMENT would have to be repaired, before being shipped???

I stand by my point, Sam… you (Or someone on your behalf…) laid down options for the users, carefully describing them to limit the chances of users choosing the replacement of the unit.

Please, note… I admit I’d probably would have done the same, in your position… I’m not blaming you for trying to keep the potential damage at bay.

And that’s precisely why I find it hard to believe that it wasn’t done on purpose! :wink:

BTW…

Of course I wasn’t expecting you to retreat on this matter and, as I already said, I see no way our different ends can meet.

So no need to drag this discussion along forever, but I had to voice my thoughts out clearly and now it’s up to other readers to draw to conclusions… for what I’m concerned, I’m done!

You too!

Have a great 2026!

Joe

117

Some thoughts with regard to opening the box. My Vero V works fine, and AFAIK I have never opened the box. Nevertheless, I think that I should be able to do so without invalidating the warranty. The old “risk of electric shock” canard may actually be relevant for some of your customers, but not all.

  1. Opening the box is in my DNA, since childhood. It’s my device, and maybe there’s something obvious that I can quickly fix myself.

  2. There is a fair amount of hassle associated with just returning the unit: boxing it up, filling out the export label, walking it to the post office, standing in line and paying for it, and then doing without for at least several days.

  3. If I break an antenna wire or whatever, I would expect to pay for that repair.

If my plumbing goes bad, I’ll first try to fix it myself. If that fails, I’ll call the plumber and pay him to fix the problem plus whatever damage I may have caused. If my car dies, I’ll open the hood to check it out before calling for help. I don’t see how this device is any different.

You, and many others, might consider it silly to attempt repair of an unknown device when I can simply ask the professional to do it for free. However, as pointed out in 2) above, returning the device for “free” repair is far from free. It’s great that you offer to repair it for “free,” but I don’t think it makes sense for you to penalize someone for attempting to save both of you time and money.

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118

I’m glad you had a good Christmas.

Everything is good here.

I don’t expose any screws for a reason. If we expected users to be open the device, then we would publish some instructions. But there’s nothing serviceable inside like a desktop PC where you could add more memory for example.

Because we ship like for like. In the past I’ve sent out a replacement Vero 4K or 4K + to a customer, fully aware that the customer has experienced an issue. But what I’ve received back is poor cosmetically and has suffered ‘family’ use from kids, pets or both. So now I am down on an internal repair and an external repair when we were only on the hook for the internal repair.

Sometimes a user (admittedly rarely) will not want to lose data or their setup, which means that a blanket replacement isn’t appropriate.

So I prefer to fix the insides and return the Vero in its original housing. As a result, the MAC address won’t change either (unless it was a networking defect) which means the repair fits straight back in to the user’s home network environment.

3 in 1000 is quite frankly, ■■■■ all in terms of £ vs reputation and I would bin 3 in 1000 devices to keep our reputation. It really isn’t that at all.

I am glad you can see my side and I can see your side.