[TESTING] Vero V: Dolby Vision TV led support

12 Monkeys snow looks proper.
Aliens and Gattaca intros look how they should.
No orange highlight issues on skin tones in either profile 5 or 8 with Fly Me to the Moon.
No artifacts in car grille in Fly Me to the Moon in profile 5 either.

GREAT WORK GUYS!!!

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Forgot to give you a nudge but you can test again now :slight_smile:

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Thanks Sam - just tested and all works great! I don’t see any issues anymore when starting and stopping DV 24Hz rips even in quick succession. Great work guys! Looking forward to the eventual release on the Stable channel - for now am glad to have DV playback flawlessly on the Vero V and my TCL 65C855!

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Wow, so this sounds like all the kinks for the most common profiles are worked out within the expected behavior outlined in the OP.
Has anyone tested profile 4 and/or 8.4?
If those play well then DV is pretty much fully supported outside of FEL, which I realize is a big deal but considering it used to be zero support this is very impressive.
Most devices that have claimed to support DV for the last few years usually did something substandard so it wasn’t exactly what people were expecting and none of them did FEL until recently and many of those devices have other quirks to them that make them less desirable too.
Once again, GREAT JOB GUYS!!!

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How to update? Just use the same commands as in the first post? The usual way to update doesn’t give any updates.

Yes as Graham wrote you might need to add again the testing repository as it might have been removed by now.

Amazing work! I upgraded to the Vero V last month just because of this thread :smiley:

I am noticing something slightly weird though, I’m surprised I’m the only one so far. I’ve only tried DVP 5 and DVP 8.1 but see the same issue on both: the colors are a bit more saturated (pop more) and/or the peak brightness is noticably higher when compared to the TV’s integrated Kodi or the TV’s internal player.

  • Vero V with kernel 4.9.269-76 (installed yesterday)
  • LG OLED G3 with brew Kodi v21.2 installed (its picture looks the exact same when played off USB with the internal player)
  • LG OLED C2 with bew Kodi v22.0 installed and with the internal player (USB)
  • same exact picture settings for the HDMI input of the Vero and the internal apps/players, all “auto” settings turned off (e.g. “auto brightness” or “AI brightness”).
     
  • when played directly on the LG’s internal player, the DoVi video looks very similar to the HDR10 variant
  • but on Vero V, both DVP 5 and DVP 8.1 look oversaturated/overbrightened
  • the HDR10 variant looks fine on the Vero V
  • the same DVP 5 video but with HDR Processing: Force HDR (no DV) also looks fine

 
I have a 90 MB sized test clip (DVP 5) which I uploaded here. You can see the entire picture is brighter, sun rays peak noticably more, and the red hair and jacket also pop a bit more.

I remembered I had DoVi calibration videos from R.Masciola and I compared the Color Clipping > 01. HDR Color Clipping High_Dolby_Vision.mp4 between the Vero V and the native TV player.

It looks sort of like this (ignore the wrong colors in this picture, it’s a PC screenshot)

Here’s how the native TV player (left) compares to the Vero V (right):

   TV / Vero
W: 89 / 80
R: 82 / 81
G: 86 / 80
B: 89 / 84
Y: 89 / 82
C: 86 / 79
M: 83 / 79

As you can see, the output from the Vero V clips much sooner for all colors (and especially white/brightness). This indicates Vero V’s DoVi output has oversaturation and/or a PQ curve that is way above reference.

(Unfortunately, I don’t think I can share that video file, since it requires a license).

Thanks for the feedback. It’s difficult to say what is ‘correct’ output from Vero. And I guess it would be disappointing if the DV version looked the same as the HDR10 version.

You’ve correctly mentioned that TVs have different settings for different inputs. On my TV DV from HDMI is blessed with only one setting: DV bright or DV dark and the dark setting is useless. I think other TVs are similar. I’m not sure there are any settings for the internal player. Having said that I, for one, haven’t spent much time comparing output from different players, and measuring the output accurately is difficult, so your findings are useful.

We jacked up the brightness in the latest build because @ac16161 mentioned SDR output was too low. We can have another look at that.

Edit: FWIW I’m getting this with Vero feeding my Philips OLED:
W: 88
R: 83
G: 81
B: 83
Y: 87
C: 81
M: 76

Not sure yet what to make of that. But assuming 90 corresponds to 4000nits and 75 corresponds to 1000 nits I doubt the differences measured with that pattern will be noticeable on typical content.

As for your test clip. Yes, it’s a tad brighter than with the internal player on my Philips OLED but I’ve not seen any obvious white crushing. TBC …

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Not if it’s not supposed to be :slight_smile:
 

I use “Filmmaker Mode” for Dolby Vision for the HDMI input and the internal apps (i.e. webOS Kodi and the internal player), with the exact same settings applied. I would hope the TV doesn’t secretely process the signals differently for HDMI and the internal pipeline (in terms of DoVi color conversion or applying a roll-off).
 

88 is quite high, wow. It means your TV definitely applies a proper roll-off and doesn’t just clip anything that’s beyond its capabilities.

 

The whole reason I started looking into it in the first place was because I immediately noticed the difference in picture quality :stuck_out_tongue:

 
I’m not sure if it would be helpful for someone with a Netfl*x account to compare the above test clip on the Vero V with that same scene (Season 2, Episode 1, at ~19:30min) played directly from Netfl*x on a SmartTV app or fed via HDMI from an AppleTV or FireTV stick - to check if they also see a difference.

I lied. This morning I discovered there are other settings when DV is being played under an Advanced tab. The UI on that TV is terrible. Made sure the settings are the same for all scenarios.

My point is, a difference in roll-off above 1000nits would be hard to spot. The differences we see on that test card are because the mid-tone contrast is higher, pushing up the knee point - that’s what is easy to spot. We’re probably saying the same thing :stuck_out_tongue:

I can see a difference so further confirmation not necessary at this stage. We just need a method of measuring it so we can see what adjustments might help. Stay tuned.

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Excuse me if this is a dumb question, but does the Vero V also take the “Dolby Vision trim” into account? (the “dynamic metadata” so to speak) Since it includes features like gain, gamma, saturation etc. from what I remember. Maybe that’s missing and the reason why it looks different?

And out of curiosity: for the DoVi->HDR10 fallback conversion, does the Vero V take the trim into account when converting it to HDR10 or is it just converting the image to another color space (in simplified terms)? Seems like it would be a lot of work to support all trim features to be applied for that HDR10 conversion.

Vero does not apply the trims. If it did, that would be ‘player-led’ which it can’t do. It passes the metadata through to the TV so that the TV can apply the trims suitable for its capabilities. Passing the metadata through is basically what’s new since December although we’ve also refined how Profile 5 is (un)shaped.

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If you want to share your test file I can check it out on my OLED and compare the internal and V differences on my end and see how it compares to what you’re getting.

I got round to giving the test build a go, only to find that my TV is LLDV-only so requires player-led DV playback.
This is not a problem, and I fully accept that DV on Vero V is not going to work for me (I understand the technical/non-technical issues around that). I have it working on a couple of other devices presumably as LLDV, although natively on the TV is guess it counts as TV-led? (if you don’t think too hard about it!).
I am more curious as to whether there is an online database of TV’s that support display-led DV?
Are certain manufacturers stalwarts of implementing display-led DV?
Finding the information on an Internet search didn’t come back with anything (although search algorithms these days are laws unto themselves).
My understanding is that it is more complicated for the display manufacturers, in that it places the processing requirements on the display and causes issues around A/V sync due to latency discrepancies (hence the concept of LLDV). So them opting for LLDV saves money and reduces complexity. But it is still “Dolby Vision”.
For reference, my TV is a 5-6 year old Sony KD-77AG9BU, which I appreciate is now somewhat “dated”. But I read that Sony uses LLDV in most of their products? Again, I can’t personally confirm this though.

An LG OLED would be the default go to for the vast majority of people looking for Dolby Vision.
Sony has Dolby Vision sets but they tend to cost a significant amount more than the LG TVs.
Hisense and TCL have some Dolby Vision capable sets too but most people looking for Dolby Vision are likely wanting an OLED so LG becomes the go to with Sony being next.

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Hi. Trying to update but running into this issue:

osmc@osmc:~$ echo 'deb http://apt.osmc.tv bullseye-devel main' | sudo tee /etc/apt/sources.list.d/osmc-devel.list
deb http://apt.osmc.tv bullseye-devel main
osmc@osmc:~$ sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade && reboot
Hit:2 https://deb.debian.org/debian bullseye InRelease
Hit:3 https://security.debian.org bullseye-security InRelease
Hit:4 https://deb.debian.org/debian bullseye-updates InRelease
Hit:5 https://download.docker.com/linux/debian bullseye InRelease
Hit:6 https://apt.sonarr.tv/debian buster InRelease
Get:7 https://download.mono-project.com/repo/debian stable-buster InRelease [5874 B]
Ign:9 https://mediaarea.net/repo/deb/ubuntu kinetic InRelease
Err:10 https://mediaarea.net/repo/deb/ubuntu kinetic Release
  404  Not Found [IP: 51.75.207.234 443]
Hit:1 https://ftp.fau.de/osmc/osmc/apt bullseye-devel InRelease
Hit:8 https://ftp.fau.de/osmc/osmc/apt bullseye InRelease
Reading package lists... Done
E: The repository 'https://mediaarea.net/repo/deb/ubuntu kinetic Release' no longer has a Release file.
N: Updating from such a repository can't be done securely, and is therefore disabled by default.
N: See apt-secure(8) manpage for repository creation and user configuration details.

It looks like at some point you’ve added some other repos to your setup. You need to go in and remove the one that’s erroring out.

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Weird. I have updates turned off but the DoVi Profile 5 → HDR10 conversion randomly stopped working for all files (even the test file above). I have “HDR Processing” set to “Force HDR (no DV)”. Already rebooted the device twice.

Anyone else experience this? I currently can’t SSH into the device but will upload a log as soon as I can. Thought I’d ask here first, just in case.

Edit: Forgot to mention that sometimes my TV will show the HDR10 popup in the top right but the picture is actually SDR with all the usual wrong colors when playing DoVi files on unsupported devices. Clicking the info button on my TV remote also confirms it’s SDR and not HDR.

Why not? Is this a separate issue?