What system video and player settings are to be used in OSMC in order to get HD audio passthrough working properly during a 3D FP video playback?
Quite recently I was able to produce pretty smooth 3D FP playback picture qualtity when processing a 3D FP video over my VERO 4K+ device. My only problem was how to send HD audio stream to my AVR from that movie for only non-HD audio signals seemed to be working during the playback.
Have you configured your audio based on this thread?
Thank you for your time answering my question.
Unfortunately about “how to connect up your OSMC device to get best audio possible” does not cover my hardware setup, but I’ll check every part of it for the proper Kodi settings anyway.
What is your audio setup?
Sam
From what I saw in your logs posted in another thread your settings are correct for outputting HD audio. Also in that other thread you said you could play DTS MA and your issue was there was problems where it would stop playing and not want to go again until a reboot. I don’t know what is going on with that topic as far as where the problem lies and a solution, but certainly I think this mean that your audio settings are correct. How the audio gets treated in this regard is the same regardless of media type (ie there is no special treatment of the soundtrack just because a movie is in 3D).
Did you check the audio settings during playback to make sure it was actually playing the desired audio track and not a secondary audio stream? How exactly is it broken, no sounds, sending out PCM, something else?
When you say the audio guide doesn’t cover your hardware setup, how so? Is your Vero not directly connected to your AVR. If not does it work if directly connect it to your AVR.
If you have a 4K capable TV (plus projector) and an old AVR - say hdmi 1.3 compatible only - you cannot send your video through your amplifier to your displays as the old AVR could not output 4K video. In order to have both 4K video and HD audio you have to use a media source with multiple hdmi output like a GPU of a PC and connect one hdmi output to your display input and another to your old AVR input.
Say you have lots of media sources – i for instance have an HTPC, a set top box, a PS3 and a VERO 4K+ -, things can even be more complicated. You need an HDMI matrix with as many input sockets as your media sources and at least one hdmi output to your TV and one to your beamer. One might think that is it, there can be no more complication … and would be wrong.
People fond of 3D movies may have modern UHD porjectors that can handle 3D and would find out that modern TVs do not care 3D video processing unless at a very high price. Instead you would end up with a decent 2D TV. Why is this important?
For HDMI matrixes tend to have 3 operation modes regarding on which output’s display’s edid to be used when communicating with media sources. Two of those operation modes are impractical for UHD 3D, but „COPY” mode would do the trick.
In „COPY” mode the matrix uses OUTPUT1 edid signal for communication and whatever comes back would be copied to OUTPUT2 (hence the name of this op. mode). In order to get 3D and UHD working you have to connect your 3D capable UHD projector into OUTPUT1 and your 2D UHD TV into OUTPUT2. That is the only setup you’d be able to have all the resolutions, including the ones for 3D, to be communicated over to your media sources.
Although HDMI matrixes usually have 2.0 analog and 5.1 digital outputs you’d better not to use them for they are incapable of passing HD audio through (I might be the only person who could contradict to this statement, but that is a different issue, leave it for the time being).
Now comes the tricky part and the reason why a 4X4 HDMI matrix is not a solution to the problems with the old AVRs. If you connect an legacy (hdmi 1.3, 1.4 compliant only) AVR to a HDMI matrix that would definitely results in the immediate loss of UHD and HDR video signal for an old AVR does not support them and the matrix is allowed to communicate resolutions only supported by all connected devices. What to do then, how to solve this?
Luckily I am not alone with the above problem onto which engineers have found good answer a couple of years ago by creating a special HDMI splitter. Unlike HDMI matrixes this tiny little device smart enough to make the most use of its components by combining the video edid of the display and the audio edid of the AVR connected.
In my case a Feintech VAX 01202 HDMI splitter goes into the OUTPUT1 of a XOLORspace 46421S 4X2 HDMI matrix and a 3D UHD projector is connected to OUT1 of the splitter of which OUT2 is tied to my AVR. You may have noticed that both the matrix and the splitter are 4K 2K @ 60p hdmi 2.0 compliant supporting all the relevant HD audio formats and 3D video signal. OUTPUT2 of the matrix above is connected to my Samsung QE65Q80a TV.
Using this setup the NVIDIA GTX 1050 on my windows based HTPC thinks that my BenQ W2700 projector has the sound capabilities of my Pioneer VSX-LX70 and let Kodi (running on that PC) to passthrough HD audio to the above matrix and from there to the splitter from where it flows to one of the AVR inputs untouched. The same goes to my VERO 4K+ which is capable to playback UHD HDR movies with the proper resolutions and refresh rates and passing through any HD audio track of the movie.
By now one may have understood that all my media sources uses the same hardware resources i.e. displays and AVR, even 2.0 hdmi cables are the same type. On the top of the above HDMI connections the HTPC and the matrix are connected to the AVR via quality toshlink cables too, reason of which is unimportant in our context.
This is my audio-video setup and it works like a charm, but I must admit it is hard to fit into either of the possible setups described so far in OSMC wiki. (My suggestion is to introduce a new branch on connecting VERO to DISPLAY and AVR by using a HDMI splitter)
There were only two issues I have had to report so far, both are related to HD audio playback in OSMC’s Kodi and neither is present when using windows based Kodi in the very same hardware environment.
Update1: For proper testing I will leave the matrix out of the picture but I cannot let the splitter go otherwise there will be no HD audio input to the AVR.
Update2: Playing back the very same 3D FP movie one HD soundtrack playable, the other not.
See my answer to Sam, but in short I’d say you may connect your VERO to your display and your AVR via an HDMI splitter, settings of which should practically be the same as when connecting the display through AVR using HDMI connections only.
Yes I checked, it was me who selected the audio track
No sound at all and the AVR display shows “STEREO” instead of “DTS-HD”
Here is my log: https://paste.osmc.tv/wefigediji
It will contain succesfull 2D playback with HD audio and some unsuccessful and the same with 3D.
The logs you posted are just a subset and have omitted everything useful.
Even if for just a test, and not a solution, plugging the Vero directly to the AVR may be able to eliminate where the issue is. Is it really beyond the realm of possibilities that maybe there is a link in this chain where some higher bandwidth soundtracks are not able to maintain a stable transfer?
As for the audio guide you could do a writeup of this info yourself if you think there is a need. I would venture a guess that once someone joins the relatively small crowd who can make use of programing EDID’s into specialty HDMI switches they most likely have a pretty good idea of how most of this kind of stuff works.
Agreed and therefore I would not put it to anywhere. Yet the description of potential audio setups is incopmlete without the possibility of using a hmdi splitter. Which setup logic should be applied to a configuration like that …
In your case the splitter doesn’t really factor in as far as the audio configuration is concerned. The splitter your using is just duplicating the audio and tweaking the EDID. Unless your splitter is doing something to manipulate the audio then as far as Kodi’s audio settings and the audio guide are concerned, it is no different then if the splitter wasn’t there in the first place. OSMC isn’t using the EDID to decide what to output as you have to manually set what you want to output. Therefore when you enable passthrough and check the boxes for Dolby and DTS HD output then that is what gets sent. If the AVR is not receiving this signal they this normally means that there is an issue somewhere between the Vero and the AVR. The easy test for this is to just try a different cable if someone is plugged directly to their AVR/soundbar/etc, or if using any kind of intermediate device then bypass this to find out if this is where the signal is breaking down.
The only time a splitter would really factor in as far as audio config is concerned would be if someone were pulling a toslink/spdif signal out of a splitter. In this case they may need to configure it as if they were outputting optical from the Vero itself since that connection can only handle PCM in stereo and can’t pass through HD audio. Then again I would think that the information provided in the guide would have been enough to allow someone to figure out this particular use case without defining it explicitly.
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We do say
What do you suggest we should add?
As far as audio setting is concerned you maybe right. Only I have to understand how it is possible that HD audio works perfect in windows Kodi whereas with Vero 4K, I got some issues.
As for video settings you may be right as well, but when talking about 3D playback things can get really messed up because of that splitter.
If I leave it out from my setup than everything works normal except for me there is no way to play HD audio that way. Apart from that 3D playback will start as expected and once it is finished or I stop it, the projector goes back to normal 2D operation.
If I use the splitter 3d playback starts perfectly and I might even get HD audio working but once I stopped 3D playback my projector everytime stucked in an interim mode meaning that there will be a blank display with no reaction to any command from the remote control. The only cure from this state is if I switch it off using the power button. Since this is something I would like to avoid at any cost, by now I learned to leave the splitter out of the process when watching 3D movies. But this way I have to use the toshlink output for the sound which is a bit complicated with a VERO unit.
The problem is I used to have quality toshlink and HDMI cables only and they simply cannot be used simoultaneously in VERO for there is simply not enough room in between for the outer parts of those cables jacks. The HDMI slot and the Toshlink slot are just too close to each other hence it is impossible to put a SUPRA HDMI cable and a SUPRA toshlink cable at the same time into the appropriate slots. But this can easily be worked around by buying a cheap toshlink cable with a jack that has a very narrow outer part.
All in all in my view there is a slight chance that the use of an HDMI splitter in someone’s hardware setup might require special treatment or at least a warning in the wiki descriptions that things may not work properly that way.
That is just the fundamental reason why I have been using HDMI splitters for more than 12 years in my actual hardware setups. But I have to ask you: is VERO 4K+ prepared to that type of use, has it ever been tested that way? If the answer is a nay, than I’d suggest to declare it explicitly. If it is a yes, than you have to explain in that wiki article that people using an HDMI splitter when connecting their VERO units what setup instruction they should follow, i.e. the one for the VERO - AVR - Display or the one for VERO - Display -AVR or something else. I can only hope that despite my poor English you could still get my point and understand I try to contribute not to contradict.
Maybe the PC sends out a slightly stronger signal than the Vero does and your just running through too many devices or have too much length of cable. It could be your run for the Vero is picking up interference that the PC’s cable run isn’t. If it works when directly connected to the AVR then the Vero is outputting correctly and a solution would be outside of the scope of this forum. You have to remember that when you are sending a HD audio track it uses significantly more bandwidth than older formats so it will be more sensitive to what it is traveling through.
Regarding the toslink connection I would say that is kind of irrelevant here as HD audio cannot be transmitted over that type of connection. Furthermore, if you have an issue with clearance then there is no issue with using the cheapest POS toslink cable you can find as it will perform the exact same as the one with the biggest price tag and marketing jargon. I know that people get in their heads that the optical connection is some special thing and get images of lasers and fiber optic cables and all that kind of fancy stuff. The reality is that Toshiba just took some existing stuff and slapped it together. That light is just a regular everyday red led just like you would find on the front of a VCR. Almost every toslink cable ever made is just regular clear plastic that has polished ends. This is why this type of connection has such a limited bandwidth. It was never designed to do anything more than just handle the digital audio from a red book CD. The only thing the better toslink cables get you is they don’t generally break as easy. Better HDMI cables do make a difference so if you can only use one then that is the only sensible thing IMO.
Actually the cables are the same tpye and from the same manufacturers; from the PC 2m, from the VERO 0,5 meter long each. My guess to the phenomena cited by me is that Kodi for windows can use plenty of drivers and services directly from the OS, whereas anything that is not in the mainstream of Kodi have to be covered by OSMC. Please do not missunderstand me, I find absolute amazing that an OS with such a very little dev. community can handle so many video and sound formats!
In theory you are right, in practice I can prove that I am able to pass through DTS-HD singal over a toshlink cable thanks to VERO 4K design and to some mysterious circumstances with my HDMI matrix and one of my cheap SPDIF cables. Do not ask me how it is possible, all I know is that I can prove and reproduce it as many times as wanted. But this is something that is unimportant from the main point of view of this topic.
I wish you were right on this and I have not heard and experienced the easily audible difference between the output of a cheap toshlink cable and a decent one. Once again I do not know the explanation for that as I am not a sound or a hardware engineer all I can say if you have an appropriate sound system (audiophile amplifier, speakers high quality connetcting cables) you’d hear it.
But let’s say this is hard to decide on for it is too subjective. What I am stating is something that can easily be checked: if the distance between the two slots (HDMI and SPDIF) are big enough or not. I know this is a hardware design issue yet it exsists and anyone ready to do the task is able to test it. I know it is unimportant if you can use an HDMI connection to everything but if that is not the case, then the insufficient distance between the two slots could cause some inconveniences.
You bet, I agree on this. And if you take into consideration that the jacks of a quality HDMI cable are relevantly wider than that of the normal ones you’d start to understand what I am talking about.
Have you considered the possibility of either…
a) Your matrix is smart enough to rip out DTS core (which is a format that is supported by a S/PDIF connection) but is leaving something behind that is making your AVR display that it is playing the DTS HD part of the signal that isn’t actually there.
b) Your able to pass some DTS HD signals but it falls apart when the signal gets complex enough that it needs more bandwidth than this type of connection can handle.
I really don’t want to get into a debate over cable quality on what does and doesn’t make a difference, but this statement is utterly baffling to me. That plastic/rubber/whatever surrounding the end of an HDMI jack serves no electrical function. Any shielding present would be a thin foil and doesn’t add bulk. When a cable has a fat end it was made that way for aesthetic reasons.
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Have you tested a different 3D source with HD audio output through the very same cable connection that your Vero is outputting through? So, replacing the Vero with, let’s say, a 3D capable BD player and testing 3D and HD audio output with that?
If you have been using splitters for 12 years you are well aware that there are options for how EDID data is passed through. As far as Vero is concerned, it takes notice of the video capabilities and sends only video modes that are accepted by the display(s). As noted, it doesn’t do the same with audio - much better to give users the choice over how they listen. You can see what EDID is being received by Vero from the logs (but you didn’t post that part).
As for whether Vero is suitable for use with a splitter, the answer is yes if the splitter conforms to the HDMI standard. That’s what standards are for. One of my Veros does output through a splitter, and there are many other users with splitters, but we can’t be expected to test every brand of device and certify them for compatibility.
What I would say is HDMI devices that take power from the HDMI positive line (which is very limited in capacity according to the standard) are much better to be powered independently. I have an audio break-out device which works with some HDMI feeds but not others unless it’s powered.
You are obviously very technically knowledgeable. We can help with questions about Vero but can’t design a whole AV system for you,
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It has been a while I was on this forum, but issues I mentioned in my topics still exist, though there has been some new releases. Apart from those issues my Vero 4K+ works very solid, always as expected. I have also read someone having HD audio issues especially when playing back 3D videos which gave me some ideas where the root cause of my problems may be. As a matter of fact it should be in my hardware configuration which is anything but simple. I am not ready to change any of the three the major components, but I may be prepared to replace one of the less expensive part. And to do this I would highly appreciate some technical advice from you.
Base elements of my hardware configuration are as follows. I got two displays, one is a Samsung TV capable of 4096x2160p @120hz but no 3D support whereas my other display is a Benq W2700 beamer capable of 2D 4192x2160p @30hz and 3D 1080p@24 hz. As for sound processing I got a Pioneer VSX-LX70, an old but very reliable AVR. That AVR supports all the relevant HD audio formats (except Dolby Atmos) but is not 3D capable for it operates at the old HDMI 1.3a standard. Having four different media sources ie. 1: a Win10 based HTPC, 2: a TV set top box, 3: a PS5 and 4: a VERO 4K+, and the above displays I use an 4x2 HDMI matrix. To get proper HD audio on my AVR I need one more item, an HDMI audio splitter.
Using my Vero 4K+ I love to watch diffrent types of movies ranging from 3d 1080p @24 hz to 2D 4192x2160p @24hz. Sometimes I just listen to DTS-HD music files. How unfortunate that I got always recurring unresolvable problems for each type of activities.
If I want to watch a 3D movie using my beamer I can not get HD audio out of my Vero 4K+, only the SPDIF output will work. I think I may understand the reason for this, it has nothing to do with the OSMC software, it is due to my hardware configuration.
A very important update as of 06/05/23: Last night I just found out how to have 3D and HD audio with my HW setup. It is a bit akward and requires a little pulling of hdmi cables but it works, and that means I was wrong stating that in my case I have to let HD. audio go during 3D playback on my Vero4K+!
The other trouble is when I want to listen to an mka file that has a DTS-HD and flac file in it. The first song of that file would be played without a problem but the second and the rest will not be played at all in DTS-HD format. I might have ideas why this could happen but this time the reason for it may not lay only in my hardware but it has something to do with the OSMC operation logic. Remember, OSMC is capable of producing proper HD passthrough when playing the first song of that type of file, it is only the second song when things go wrong and no sound output, probably due to some EDID confusion. Being a software desinger myself I can completely understand how difficult it would be to find a workaround to this problem in OSMC so I started to think about a hardware solution.
What if I buy a new HDMI matrix, but this time a 4 in, 4 out, aka 4x4 type? I am almost sure it would solve all my current issues, for I guess a good 4x4 matrix should do the trick. It would always send HD audio to my AVR and the best possible picture either to my TV or to my beamer. I am a bit afraid that for watching 3D with HD audio I have to use a different EDID setting of the matrix than when watching UHD HDR with HD audio but I hope that would be the only discomfort. With this sttlement I do need the above HDMI audio splitter anymore, but I do not care.
Could anyone please comment on this or any other suggestions?
You’re not going to be able to make this work easily or cheaply, I don’t think. You will probably need something with a programmable EDID, and you’ll definitely need something capable of splitting out the audio component and relaying it separately from the video.
If you want to do all that in one device then an HDFury Vertex2 might work - it has four inputs, two video outputs, and one audio output, and programmable EDID. But even at US prices, that will set you back at least $450 - probably more if you want to be able to control it from your phone.