Not with this model sadly, but as power requirements increase and more and more devices use USB-C it is something we are looking in to for future hardware.
Keep in mind that the last model had a five year lifespan, so this won’t happen overnight.
So, @sam_nazarko can you tell us anything about how the more powerful CPU affects software decoding? Is it powerful enough to handle all 1080p Netflix streams in software? Powerful enough to decode 1080p blu-ray video in software?
I can’t comment on software decode yet. I’d rather our testers don’t comment yet until we finalise our software as we are in the final stages of hunting down regressions.
Our focus is hardware decoding. It’s the only way to get the best quality and performance.
We burned Widevine L1 keys; HDCP 2.2 and HDCP1.4 keys in to every Vero V and signed an agreement with Google which allows us to distribute Widevine libraries in an official capacity. We’re also working with upstream developers (InputStream helper) etc so our libraries are recognised and there isn’t a giant 1GB download for libraries that only support SW decoding.
Our first implementation was on S905X3.
We’re still working on an S905X4-O port.
The main focus here is for commercial customers. Netflix has further requirements like an ESN. This is a special Netflix certification. Other suppliers that only want L1 and HDCP2.2, we can give a secure video delivery pipeline.
So realistically this probably means 1080p for Netflix but no access to 4K streams.
We are making Widevine L1 and HDCP2.2 available to commercial customers that want to secure their content end-to-end. If it works for consumers as well, then great.
Powerful enough to decode 1080p blu-ray video in software?
This isn’t the issue per se. It’s the fact that Widevine libraries decrypt, decode, and render in software. There’s a lot of buffers being duplicated. With a hardware accelerated implementation, you have zero-copy decrypt, decode and render in a secure world. You save copying the same thing (albeit in different transformations a lot) and the CPU does what it does properly, simply pushes video frames to be accelerated in hardware on the VPU.
In short: we know streaming platforms are popular, we’ve taken notice, and we’re going to use commercial customers to leverage the development and investment we need to advance our position. However – signing agreements with Netflix is not realistic. You’ll get whatever libwidevinecdm would give you via a browser on a trusted platform in terms of video, audio etc. And that’s if we implement it for consumer use.
Lastly, you’ll never get above Widevine L3 with a pure software implementation. We’ve had that for years, so it’s time to try and do something better. I think that the content Netflix provides in 1080p with L3 decode is very, very limited. I believe the same applies for Sky Go and Amazon Prime instant video.
3 Likes
There are situations I can think of where being able to decode blu ray video in software would be useful - hence why I asked about that separately from streaming. For example, when decoding a 1080i/50 blu ray, software decoding would allow better control over the deinterlacing process than one gets on the Vero 4K with hardware decoding; perhaps it might also be a first step towards better support for 1080p blu ray menus…?
You may just want to get a PC then. You will get a proper ffmpeg software decode on any AMD/Intel HW.
I have a plan for BD-J menus. But if it’s really important to you, then you best avoid Vero V.
It would be a disservice to mislead you or sell you something that doesn’t meet your requirements.
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I don’t disagree with true P7 but how do you figure about profile 8.1 (I’m assuming you mean 8.1)? Most streaming services use P5.
P7 DTDL is what is found on discs. P7 STDL is nothing more than a hack to (sort of) get P7 to work on devices that aren’t meant to play back P7. There are already products out there that play back these hacks, see Dune, Zidoo, etc.
one of the reasons why i’m gonna buy the vero v is that sam will push the maximum out of this box. like he did with the vero 4k+. i even think that he gonna get DV worked.
anyway, it will be a pleasure to experience the whole update road of the vero v.
will there be again a lossly dongle to use the remote?
The dongle is inside the device via an internal USB port; so both (external) ports are free.
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99% of a WEB-DL Dolby Vision files are Profile 8 (dvhe.08.06)
you are an idiot! i think you need to read the Matroska Dolby Vision Spec
The remote dongle of my Vero 4K died some time back and I had to buy another dongle with its paired remote control. What happens if the internal dongle dies at some point in time? Can we buy another dongle and open the box to replace the dead one, without voiding any warranty? Being in New Zealand, I would not want to send it back for your team to do it as that would cost quite a bit.
The dongle failing is rare and shouldn’t happen.
We are testing each one before dispatch
Worst case: you plug in to the side port.
I don’t anticipate any dongles failing within any warranty period. We’ll deal with that if/when it happens
Regardless, it will be covered.
Cheers
Sam
you mean profile 5.
How do you know that? Is this from ‘legitimate’ sources?
General
Unique ID : 250993343812802410426203896685433762915 (0xBCD38F46794E939DEB7FB6B79CD0B463)
Complete name : Avatar.2009.2160p.DSNP.WEB-DL.DDP5.1.Atmos.DV.HDR.H.265-AirForceOne.mkv
Format : Matroska
Format version : Version 4
File size : 18.0 GiB
Duration : 2 h 42 min
Overall bit rate : 15.9 Mb/s
Frame rate : 23.976 FPS
Writing application : mkvmerge v76.0 (‘Celebration’) 64-bit
Writing library : libebml v1.4.4 + libmatroska v1.7.1
Video
ID : 1
Format : HEVC
Format/Info : High Efficiency Video Coding
Format profile : Main 10@L5@High
HDR format : Dolby Vision, Version 1.0, dvhe.08.06, BL+RPU, HDR10 compatible / SMPTE ST 2086, HDR10 compatible
Codec ID : V_MPEGH/ISO/HEVC
Duration : 2 h 42 min
Bit rate : 15.1 Mb/s
Width : 3 840 pixels
Height : 2 160 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 23.976 (24000/1001) FPS
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 10 bits
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.076
Stream size : 17.1 GiB (95%)
Language : English
Default : Yes
Forced : No
Color range : Limited
Color primaries : BT.2020
Transfer characteristics : PQ
Matrix coefficients : BT.2020 non-constant
Mastering display color primaries : BT.2020
Mastering display luminance : min: 0.0001 cd/m2, max: 1000 cd/m2
Audio
ID : 2
Format : E-AC-3 JOC
Format/Info : Enhanced AC-3 with Joint Object Coding
Commercial name : Dolby Digital Plus with Dolby Atmos
Codec ID : A_EAC3
Duration : 2 h 42 min
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 768 kb/s
Channel(s) : 6 channels
Channel layout : L R C LFE Ls Rs
Sampling rate : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate : 31.250 FPS (1536 SPF)
Compression mode : Lossy
Stream size : 890 MiB (5%)
Language : English
Service kind : Complete Main
Default : Yes
Forced : No
Complexity index : 16
Number of dynamic objects : 15
Bed channel count : 1 channel
Bed channel configuration : LFE
General
Unique ID : 234307745710696587687563609484280569037 (0xB04607C61B2D0BD16F16D7F614D19CCD)
Complete name : Extraction.2.2023.2160p.NF.WEB-DL.DDP5.1.Atmos.DV.HDR.H.265-FLUX.mkv
Format : Matroska
Format version : Version 4
File size : 17.1 GiB
Duration : 2 h 3 min
Overall bit rate : 19.7 Mb/s
Frame rate : 24.000 FPS
Writing application : mkvmerge v74.0.0 (‘You Oughta Know’) 64-bit
Writing library : libebml v1.4.4 + libmatroska v1.7.1
Video
ID : 1
Format : HEVC
Format/Info : High Efficiency Video Coding
Format profile : Main 10@L5@Main
HDR format : Dolby Vision, Version 1.0, dvhe.08.06, BL+RPU, HDR10 compatible / SMPTE ST 2086, HDR10 compatible
Codec ID : V_MPEGH/ISO/HEVC
Duration : 2 h 3 min
Bit rate : 19.0 Mb/s
Width : 3 840 pixels
Height : 2 160 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 24.000 FPS
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0 (Type 2)
Bit depth : 10 bits
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.095
Stream size : 16.4 GiB (96%)
Language : English
Default : Yes
Forced : No
Color range : Limited
Color primaries : BT.2020
Transfer characteristics : PQ
Matrix coefficients : BT.2020 non-constant
Mastering display color primaries : Display P3
Mastering display luminance : min: 0.0001 cd/m2, max: 1000 cd/m2
Maximum Content Light Level : 405 cd/m2
Maximum Frame-Average Light Level : 355 cd/m2
Audio
ID : 2
Format : E-AC-3 JOC
Format/Info : Enhanced AC-3 with Joint Object Coding
Commercial name : Dolby Digital Plus with Dolby Atmos
Codec ID : A_EAC3
Duration : 2 h 2 min
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 768 kb/s
Channel(s) : 6 channels
Channel layout : L R C LFE Ls Rs
Sampling rate : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate : 31.250 FPS (1536 SPF)
Compression mode : Lossy
Stream size : 671 MiB (4%)
Language : English
Service kind : Complete Main
Default : Yes
Forced : No
Complexity index : 16
Number of dynamic objects : 15
Bed channel count : 1 channel
Bed channel configuration : LFE
There was a short lived phase where they would take the RPU Profile v5 rip and change it to v8 and HDR fallback. This is known as a hybrid rip and isn’t a legitimate source. Legitimate sources would be profile 5.
It was the scene’s approach to fixing pink / green tint issues on non-compliant devices / displays, but is not an established standard and is considered controversial. The first time I saw this was late 2022, so I doubt 99% of WEB-DL rips are encoded like this.
1 Like
not to mention ALL the other players are converting MKV profile 7 to profile 8 on the fly
why would anyone want to use profile 5? it does not have HDR10/10+ fallback, so unless your entire home is DV capable it’s pointless, Profile 8 hybrid or not is the format all new releases are being released in. regardless, my point is the more DV profiles you support the better off you will be
Obviously any given content provider may choose to screw you over and change the rules on you without warning in the future(!) but as of right now, what does that allow access to? You said (I think) that on Netflix it allows hardware-decoding of 1080p streams, but doesn’t give access to 4K streams; what about other providers - Disney, Amazon, Apple, etc.?